Owner/Operator Charter Tip

[jspoone]

I'm looking at chartering an owner/operator boat in the BVI's in April, from a husband and wife crew. I know the recommended tip chartering through a company is 15-20%, however, the captain and chef don't receive the full chartered amount paid. Since the people I am looking at chartering with actually own the boat, therefore the entire charter costs goes directly to them, is there still a need to tip 15-20%? I have read several posts about tipping so I don't wont' to get into an "I never tip vs I always tip" discussion, I'm just wondering what the expectations are.

[contrail]

The actual charter fee does go to them, less the broker fee which is usually 15%. That fee covers their own fees, dockage, maintenance, insurance, usually a mortgage, and if they are in the BVI, their BVI Social Security and National Health insurance fees, laundry, cleaning, etc. etc. If it is a fully crewed, all inclusive charter, they also pay for provisions, etc. . There is actually little left over and a huge part of the crews' income is that tip. How do I know this? Because I run a charter boat in the BVI! Why do they not charge more so the tip is less important? Because what they charge is largely based on the competition, who operate the same way, whether they are owner operated or not. If the boat is not owner operated, their business plan may even allow for a small loss! When you booked your charter, a factor in your choice was most probably price. Why do people think an owner operator has lower expenses? Some assert that they should charge a fee that expects a smaller tip, or no tip. Well, that would be a higher charter fee, that probably means less business. So, in the BVI, it is customary to pay the same tip, owner operator or not. Now, I will sit back and listen to people who will strenuously tell you why this should not be so. They may be right, but they are not in the business, here. The answer I am giving you is what IS customary here, and what your crew will be expecting and, yes, depending upon. And, in most cases, they will have worked very hard for it.

[mrarcher]

Interesting topic, as I have been somewhat trying to research a Captained Cat Charter to the BVI/St. Martin area. I started getting some emails from Festiva that looked nice, but I wasn't very successful in finding a good site to review unbiased reviews on different charter companies, or individual independants, etc. I know I'm going to have one shot with my wife in trying to interest her into this whole sailing lifestyle, and I don't want to blow it with a bad experience! Where do you start?

[jspoone]

Thanks for the honest response. I’m not wanting to be cheap by any means but I also don’t want to give more than is expected. First post on here but I’ve been following for some time and from what I have seen there are a lot of opinions.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by jspoone

Thanks for the honest response. I’m not wanting to be cheap by any means but I also don’t want to give more than is expected. First post on here but I’ve been following for some time and from what I have seen there are a lot of opinions.

There certainly are! Many fall into the category of "I don't tip at home, so I don't see why I should tip anywhere else", which is an incredibly provincial justification. Interestingly, this argument is consistently made with guests from certain countries or areas, to the extent that guests from these countries are not looked forward to by the crew, even if the crew comes from the same country. Others fall into the category of "the owner should pay the crew enough so that they don't depend on the tip," ignoring the fact that the charter fee would then be correspondingly higher. And, finally, there are those that say, "why should I tip an owner-operator," ignoring the fact that the owner-operator has to price his or her charters to compete with the non owner-operators, which boils down to the tip being as big a part of the picture for the one as the other. It is simply the way it is done in the BVI.



Most charters are booked through a broker. Most brokers clearly explain how tips are handled in the BVI, and in many cases, it is even repeated in the charter contract. The guest knows what is expected. Why the guest thinks that he or she is entitled to ignore all of this, even after acknowledging it, and apply customs from a different part of the world or point of view, I cannot imagine. Well, I can. It's called getting something at someone else's expense, and planning to do so, beforehand, and it's being cheap. Let me conclude that I am NOT talking about a charter that did not meet expectations or in which good service was not provided, but these are very rare. In such a case, the tip should be smaller, as it has not been earned. On behalf of the charter industry and the crews, thank you for asking what is customary and for reading my admittedly blunt reply. By the way, I have run an owner operated charter boat in the BVI for 15 years, and was the Chairman of the Charter Yacht Society of the BVI for 6 years, so you are getting this from the "horse's mouth", and not from a barstool! Cheers, and I hope you have a wonderful charter with a wonderful crew. I am sure you will.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by mrarcher

Interesting topic, as I have been somewhat trying to research a Captained Cat Charter to the BVI/St. Martin area. I started getting some emails from Festiva that looked nice, but I wasn't very successful in finding a good site to review unbiased reviews on different charter companies, or individual independants, etc. I know I'm going to have one shot with my wife in trying to interest her into this whole sailing lifestyle, and I don't want to blow it with a bad experience! Where do you start?

Festiva generally operates pre-planned charters where you book a cabin and share the boat with others. It is very cost effective and many enjoy this type of a charter, but it is not customized for your group, in any way. If you have the budget, I would suggest chartering a catamaran with a captain. If I were not retiring, I would volunteer, myself, as I do a lot of instructional and captain only charters which includes women and couples. But, I won't be available. However, the BVI has a good number of excellent captains for your purpose, and I am thinking of two specific ones that I would feel 100% comfortable to recommend. PM me if you would like these suggestions.

[svtickles]

I recall leaving a restaurant in Washington D.C. in 2011 where the service was horrible, utterly rude and extremely slow. There were maybe two tables, so no excuse. We did not tip. The waiver ran after us to the door and complained VERY loudly about her missing tip. She doesn't make money otherwise, etc., etc. What about her hourly pay?? I was not convinced and walked out.
I worked in the service industry as a chef of a fast food restaurant. Guess how many times I saw a tip? Zero. If the front staff got any, it disappeared there. All I had was my $7.25 per hour. No sympathy.

Later I worked in other service jobs (parking attendant for 2 years, soccer referee, parking officer, community service officer (uni job)) and never received tips in any of these. Actually, I got a hug once or twice when I agreed to rip up a ticket on the spot.

Anyways, I would be hard pressed to give anyone a tip unless the job was exceptional; and then it would never be more than 50-100 Eur. Definitely not a % of the charter cost!

I think tipping is really down to how much one is able to afford. I can afford a charter, yes; but I'm on a budget too.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by svtickles

I recall leaving a restaurant in Washington D.C. in 2011 where the service was horrible, utterly rude and extremely slow. There were maybe two tables, so no excuse. We did not tip. The waiver ran after us to the door and complained VERY loudly about her missing tip. She doesn't make money otherwise, etc., etc. What about her hourly pay?? I was not convinced and walked out.
I worked in the service industry as a chef of a fast food restaurant. Guess how many times I saw a tip? Zero. If the front staff got any, it disappeared there. All I had was my $7.25 per hour. No sympathy.

Later I worked in other service jobs (parking attendant for 2 years, soccer referee, parking officer, community service officer (uni job)) and never received tips in any of these. Actually, I got a hug once or twice when I agreed to rip up a ticket on the spot.

Anyways, I would be hard pressed to give anyone a tip unless the job was exceptional; and then it would never be more than 50-100 Eur. Definitely not a % of the charter cost!

I think tipping is really down to how much one is able to afford. I can afford a charter, yes; but I'm on a budget too.

No, it is not that simple. Everyone is on a budget, the guests, and also the owner and the crew or owner crew. The answer is very location specific, and the fact that tips might be low in Europe, Canada, or South America, or non-existent in Japan, has nothing to do with it....wages and prices are different in those places, too. The OP asked specifically about the BVI, and the expectation for a well executed charter will be 15-20%, and that is probably specified in the contract. OF course, no one expects that sort of a tip for bad service, or at least they shouldn't, but bad service is rare in the crewed charter industry and we are not talking about that. If you book a crewed charter in the BVI, your broker will have informed you of the tipping custom, which revolves around many other things. To be given this information, and then to decide, in advance, to do otherwise, is neither fair nor completely honest. It is a justification for shorting someone else, for your own gratification.

[Chotu]

Yes. You should tip them at the rate you suggested, if you are satisfied with the charter.

[BCCLover]

Originally Posted by svtickles

I recall leaving a restaurant in Washington D.C. in 2011 where the service was horrible, utterly rude and extremely slow. There were maybe two tables, so no excuse. We did not tip. The waiver ran after us to the door and complained VERY loudly about her missing tip. She doesn't make money otherwise, etc., etc. What about her hourly pay?? I was not convinced and walked out.
I worked in the service industry as a chef of a fast food restaurant. Guess how many times I saw a tip? Zero. If the front staff got any, it disappeared there. All I had was my $7.25 per hour. No sympathy.

Later I worked in other service jobs (parking attendant for 2 years, soccer referee, parking officer, community service officer (uni job)) and never received tips in any of these. Actually, I got a hug once or twice when I agreed to rip up a ticket on the spot.

Anyways, I would be hard pressed to give anyone a tip unless the job was exceptional; and then it would never be more than 50-100 Eur. Definitely not a % of the charter cost!

I think tipping is really down to how much one is able to afford. I can afford a charter, yes; but I'm on a budget too.

A bit off topic, but FYI waitstaff in the US, except at very rare restaurants, earn $2.18 an hour. So if you don't leave a tip, then the waitstaff is paying money out of their pocket to serve you (they're taxed as if they earned 12% of their sales, automatically - this is how an employer can get away with paying less than minimum wage.) If this happens in the future, my advice is to speak to a manager about the terrible service.

[svtickles]

Originally Posted by contrail

It is a justification for shorting someone else, for your own gratification.

I think people don't do all the research you are describing and certainly no one reads the fine print of a contract (or understands most of it).

Maybe companies should just include the tip in the bill as many restaurants do. You just select 10-20% at the time to sign off.

[mrarcher]

I don't want to go too far out off topic, but I do think that there are differences geographically as well. Pretty much in the US, I tip 20% to 25% depending on the service. If it's poor, I might go down to 18%, but I always pay it. I will however mention my displeasure to the Mgr, so that they are aware and have an opportunity to improve things.

That said, when I tipped my normal rate in Europe, in some areas, some people actually felt offended, or it reflected poorly on me and their attitudes changed. So you have to watch that.

But getting back on topic, from what I can tell at least in the Caribbean, I think most charters suggest 10% which seems plenty reasonable.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by svtickles

I think people don't do all the research you are describing and certainly no one reads the fine print of a contract (or understands most of it).

Maybe companies should just include the tip in the bill as many restaurants do. You just select 10-20% at the time to sign off.

When I was in a position of influence, I advocated for exactly that, but did not prevail. Maybe someday....


However, tipping is usually not in the "fine print". Many of the better charter brokers actually do a calculation, on the front page detailing the costs, and tell you exactly what the tip might cost. And it is usually specified several times, up front, at least in the case of the privately operated charters, like the one the OP asked about. It is almost impossible to miss.