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Old 01-11-2018, 11:21   #16
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

It will be interesting to follow the "Rhum multi " class, in the route du rhum transat starting this Sunday : 3 outremers (one 4x, one 49 and one 5x) competing, as well as 3 Marsaudon/TS (one TS42, one TS5, one 52)
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:40   #17
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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Personally, I find the exposed helm position and lack of visibility of the Catana to disqualify it for anything other than day sailing, but that's just me.
Is it me or do all/most catamaran helms seem very exposed and not conducive for colder climate or inclement weather sailing?
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:58   #18
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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Is it me or do all/most catamaran helms seem very exposed and not conducive for colder climate or inclement weather sailing?
Who does helm anyway when cruising ?
Nobody.
What matters is visibility for harbours manœuvres
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Old 01-11-2018, 13:29   #19
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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Who does helm anyway when cruising ?
Nobody.
What matters is visibility for harbours manœuvres
We helm all the time from the fly bridge (surrounded by clears in winter) - and it is great for harbor (and reef) maneuvers.
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Old 01-11-2018, 14:28   #20
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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and it is great for harbor (and reef) maneuvers.
So indeed when cold and foul weather doesn't matter anyway
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Old 01-11-2018, 18:20   #21
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

If you ever DO need to hand steer because your AP has packed in, or you've lost electronics/power, or you're threading your way through reef passages, or etc., Murphy's Law says that the sea conditions & weather when that happens will be not nice.

Sure, it's unlikely. But not THAT unlikely either. And if it happens mid ocean passage, a protected helm is not just a nicety, IMO.
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Old 01-11-2018, 19:02   #22
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

My experience has been that even when everything is working you have to hand steer for up to a reasonable period (coming into a marina, threading a reef entry, navigating through shallow waters). In the med or Caribbean this is probably OK but in the Pacific the sun is vicious even over short periods. Having had one ear reconstructed and a nodular melanoma cut out of my leg, IMO sun protection in the Pacific is absolutely mandatory.
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Old 01-11-2018, 19:15   #23
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

Some might say that the capsizing of the last few performance cats could be partially attributed to everyone being nice and cozy inside, rather than out in the elements. But then, I’m old and wrinkled with cataracts, because I’ve never thought of sailing as an inside sport.
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Old 01-11-2018, 20:55   #24
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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Is it me or do all/most catamaran helms seem very exposed and not conducive for colder climate or inclement weather sailing?
If I planned on a lot of cold weather sailing, I'd go with an Antares for full protection, but as great as that cat is, it is a very old design and there have been so many improvements in the industry since its last iteration.

For occasional cold weather sailing, get on any FP, Leopard, or a Lagoon 450S with clears and tell me you don't feel safe and protected while having great visibility and can traverse helm to cockpit/salon in total safety. Raised bulkhead helm is where it's at. Only real downside to those listed above is port aft corner when docking and perhaps starboard leeward visibility under sail. Outremer and the like with dual helms solve that though.
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Old 01-11-2018, 21:42   #25
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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If I planned on a lot of cold weather sailing, I'd go with an Antares for full protection, but as great as that cat is, it is a very old design and there have been so many improvements in the industry since its last iteration.
There are other options for modern sailing w/ a good forward view while keeping warm. Both of these companies did it before Gunboat

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Old 02-11-2018, 01:02   #26
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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Who does helm anyway when cruising ?
Nobody.
What matters is visibility for harbours manœuvres
Totally disagree, respectfully. There are times when cruising that you really, really need to be at the helm and they are exactly the times when some shelter is very nice to have. Visibility for harbour manouevres would be a long way down on the list of my priorities as when cruising I anchored almost everywhere and if going into a marina, crew would be positioned to tell me how far I was from anything I didn't want to hit.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:23   #27
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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Totally disagree, respectfully. There are times when cruising that you really, really need to be at the helm and they are exactly the times when some shelter is very nice to have. Visibility for harbour manouevres would be a long way down on the list of my priorities as when cruising I anchored almost everywhere and if going into a marina, crew would be positioned to tell me how far I was from anything I didn't want to hit.

To each his own. I am with Yvest on this one. I would not select a system that would be useful 1% of the time and would be sub optimal the other 99%. I would try to find another way to do it. Namely, I use coat/trousers/boots whenever I really need to go out in bad weather, and I use a hat when the sun is strong.
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:10   #28
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

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There are other options for modern sailing w/ a good forward view while keeping warm. Both of these companies did it before Gunboat

Maine Cat 30/38/41: ( Feb in the PNW, 43 def F, 25-30 knots of wind)

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Old 02-11-2018, 19:39   #29
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

In my opinion, protected helm stations are a necessity. Even with autopilot ON, during bad storms I had to be at the helm, just in case. The protected helm station of my ex Lagoon 450 was amazing. Protected helm is a requirement for me.
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Old 03-11-2018, 00:39   #30
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Re: Outremer 51 experience?

Besides, protected helm positions if they are designed well with good sight lines are completely functional in most ways I can think of. Not sub optimal at all.
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