Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

[annualLeave]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Why would starting with a mono be better to identify what kind of boat is best?
why not start with what the OP thinks he wants?

A cat may be more expensive upfront, but certainly cheaper than buying a mono, fix other peoples problems, get experience and then upgrade to the boat he always wanted.

I have spent maybe 2 hours on mono sailboats in my life. Of course I don't know what I'm missing, but also not interested in knowing. Happy with my choice.
Not saying cat is better, just that some people completely don't care about monos. Others love monos and don't care about multis. Which is OK, live and let live.



Med or Caribbean is more a matter of personalities. Some folks like beaches. Others are bored after two weeks of beaches and seek for more variety.

One caveat: Caribbean offers more, better and easier sailing due to more stable weather patterns (in season of course!). The Med has areas with strong winds (meltemi, mistral, bora, ...) which often alternate with total calms. Plus sometimes thunderstorms often accompanied by gale or even storm force winds. Doesn't last long, but can blow your sail or turtle your boat.

Originally Posted by rabbi

Exactly my point: The OP has no experience but a bias towards cats.

So why should a mono be a better choice to start building experience?

Agreed, mono is no better choice than a cat for learning, but one needs to try both to be in a position to decide what one likes best.

[SteveSadler]

Most live aboard cruising cats don't sail upwind of a beam reach very well.
If you learn on a modern mono, you may apprieciate sailing for the joy of sailing. I'ts hard to learn to love playing a guitar if it sounds junk. If it sound great the reward is great. If you love to motor buy a cat, don't look back.

[rabbi]

Most live aboard cruising cats sail upwind of a beam reach very well.
If you learn on a modern cat, you may apprieciate sailing for the joy of sailing and living onboard. I'ts hard to learn to love playing a guitar if it sounds junk. If it sound great the reward is great. If you love to live at heel of 40 degrees and rock around in a calm anchorage buy a mono, don't look back.

I fixed that for you

1st pic doing between 3.0-3.2kn SOG in 3.5-4.0kn wind at AWA 38 under AP. Notice the engine throttle is in reverse (folding props) so we are not motoring.
2nd pic doing 7.3kn in 21kn at AWA 38, also under AP, could have done 10-11kn but as you can see at the genoa we were reefed heavily as this was near shore and extremely gusty. Also we were having breakfast at this time, notice the level horizon. Again not motoring, throttle is in forward as the dog clutch sometimes would not go in reverse with the engine off.

We have done about 3000nm in the last two years in the Med, where one typically has low wind conditions and of course from the wrong direction. We have used about 120 engine hours in total.

Go figure

[gsuescum]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

Most live aboard cruising cats don't sail upwind of a beam reach very well.
If you learn on a modern mono, you may apprieciate sailing for the joy of sailing. I'ts hard to learn to love playing a guitar if it sounds junk. If it sound great the reward is great. If you love to motor buy a cat, don't look back.

Funny comment. Still, I am SO glad I didn’t read it before the weekend. Otherwise I might not have bothered to go sailinG in my MaineCat and beaten out about a half-dozen monohulls tacking upwind with me.

[SteveSadler]

I am truly impressed if you can keep up with a mono of the same vintage.
We sailed thru the Caribbean in company with a new cat in our 12 yr old mono
ketch and they always ran one engine upwind to keep up even though we reefed and never set the mizzen. I've spoken with many cat owners about performance, and while impressive off the wind, most will motor to a windward destination.
Here on Maui, I ran the beach cats, 50' to 65' and they could get over 20kts with working sails on a reach. Of course not with passengers as the deck is covered in spray.
I do agree they are a stable living platform, spacious as well, and for cruising downwind in the tropics, a fine choice. If price is a consideration, 50' monos and 38' cats of the same breed and vintage, share similar tags. Thats where I decided mono.

[smj]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

I am truly impressed if you can keep up with a mono of the same vintage.

We sailed thru the Caribbean in company with a new cat in our 12 yr old mono

ketch and they always ran one engine upwind to keep up even though we reefed and never set the mizzen. I've spoken with many cat owners about performance, and while impressive off the wind, most will motor to a windward destination.

Here on Maui, I ran the beach cats, 50' to 65' and they could get over 20kts with working sails on a reach. Of course not with passengers as the deck is covered in spray.

I do agree they are a stable living platform, spacious as well, and for cruising downwind in the tropics, a fine choice. If price is a consideration, 50' monos and 38' cats of the same breed and vintage, share similar tags. Thats where I decided mono.

I would consider your boat a performance cruiser, was the catamaran your comparing to also performance oriented or was it a charter cat?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[SteveSadler]

My boat was a 1978 Gulfstar 50. The cat was 38', new, privately owned, and this was 30 yrs ago.
Now we sail a 07 Jeanneau 49DS. Much faster upwind and down.
Our last July passage Galapagos to Fatu Hiva, 3000m, took 18 days with working sails and autopilot.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

If price is a consideration, 50' monos and 38' cats of the same breed and vintage, share similar tags. Thats where I decided mono.

This is not true.. Even though the price of cats have increased substantially over the last 2-3 years, as of today a Jeanneau 51 is more expensive than Lagoon 42. And L 42 offers more space than J 51.
The same goes with the berthing fees..In any marina where you are charged by sqm (overall length X beam) the cost will be equal, if not cheaper. On top, due to the elliptical shape of monos vs. rectangular shape of the cat, on monos you are in reality paying more per sqm, because of the area that you don't have..

Some people argue that the maintenance costs are higher as cats have two engines. That's true but the engine servicing on total maintenence cost is not a big deal and having two engines is definately worth this extra expense for the sake of safety.
The only real difference is in hauling/launching costs. Most marinas have 100-200 tons of travel lifts but only 6-8 m width, designed in the old times for monos or motoryachts, when the cats were not yet popular. As a result, it's not easy to find a place that can haul a cat of 40+ ft. Secondly, since not everybody can haul these cats, the ones that are capable of doing so are requiring insane prices..

Cheers

Yeloya

[SteveSadler]

I just purchased my Jeanneau in Croatia 4 yrs ago after following the Market for a year. I studied Cats and Monos, ultimately prefering the mono after sailing both. My monos asking price was $135, sold for a lot less. I couln't find a 38' cat of similar breed and vintage for under 200

[MartinR]

That is correct, on the used market, catamarans are more expensive than similar sized keelboats. As for size, a 55´keelboat is about the same as a 40´cat. But I guess this will change in a few years, when the market will be flooded with used charter cats, just the same as happened to monos.

[KingGuppy]

Update: No real progress (sailing) made other than financially at this point. Landed more digital advertising clients that is 100% remote work. Still need to find more though first.

We didn't get to make it to the Annapolis boat show, but we were able to go to the Tampa one and walk around on a few Catamarans. We tried to book a catamaran day charter the day we were there, but they called back and said they didn't have enough individuals, so no luck getting in sailing hours.

Finding a day charter around Central Florida on a Lagoon, Leopard, Manta or Fountaine Pajot catamaran seems pretty challenging.

We've been reading every cat for sale listing each day to follow prices and see what would be within the budget. The 4 brands listed above seem to be where we're headed, but occasionally I come across 1990 cat's that look to be in great shape. I'm not sure what brands I should focus on for that time era that are known more so for cruising than performance.

[Davy J]

These folks seem to have what you desire, bring your credit card:


https://www.swfyachts.com/webpages/yachts.htm

[geozeck]

Tinkerbelle in the Crawford Auto Aviation Museum, Cleveland, Ohio.

Above is a photo of the greatest blue water boat in modern history. Tinkerbelle. In 1965 Robert Manry of Cleveland, Ohio splashed his 13.5 foot sail boat in Falmouth, Mass and 78 days later made land fall in Falmouth, England. He had a used sexton to guide him. Actually, there are no Water boats">blue water boats, only blue water sailors.

[Byrdman]

Originally Posted by KingGuppy

...The 4 brands listed above seem to be where we're headed, but occasionally I come across 1990 cat's that look to be in great shape. I'm not sure what brands I should focus on for that time era that are known more so for cruising than performance.

IMO, the boats you want to buy are the ones that are easiest to get rid of down the road. In case something happens, Lagoons, Leopards, etc seem to sell the best/quicker. IMO, you make money when you buy your boat not when you sell it. Buy right to mitigate losses even if you have to spend more.

Check out
Catchin' Rays https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM4...Rm02ZlARDG99kA

You never know what the future will bring. They probably thought it was going to last forever too. Great family, bad luck.

Good luck with your adventure. I am in the same boat as you so to speak, but have already done a weekend US Sailing Basic Keelboat course last year and then I found a beat up old Hobie Cat 16 that I rebuilt and have been sailing for over a year now on the lake behind our house. I am signed up for ASA 101 & 103 courses in November, and just put a deposit down today on a 40' cat the week of July 4th in the Abacos next year.

I would recommend that you start sailing ASAP. Doesnt matter, mono or cat, just get out there and sail.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Byrdman

IMO, the boats you want to buy are the ones that are easiest to get rid of down the road. In case something happens, Lagoons, Leopards, etc seem to sell the best/quicker. IMO, you make money when you buy your boat not when you sell it. Buy right to mitigate losses even if you have to spend more.

Given good condition and realistic price any of those brands will move quickly.

i sold my Lagoon 410 in the Caribbean in 2012. Two or three weeks after publishing the ad we had a purchase agreement in place.

My FP Mahe 36 sold in 2014 just by word of mouth here on CF.

Just recently I sold my Lagoon 380, again we had a purchase agreement in place within less than a month.

All were advertised at prices reasonable for the market condition and moved quickly.


Just keep in mind current market is overheated and prices are curently insane. Good for sellers, bad for buyers. I'd expect a loss in a couple of years when post-Irma charter fleets hit the market.