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Old 11-06-2021, 02:12   #1
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Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

I considering purchasing a Leopard 45-52 for live aboard circumnavigation. A new version is out of my price range and the initial depreciation is a concern.

Iím interested to hear everyoneís opinion on which of the following scenarios is better-

Scenario 1:
Purchase a 2018 Leopard 45-52 for around $600,000 and use as is until things start to go wrong. It may not contain my preferred brand and all desired electronics.

Scenario 2:
Purchase a 2013 Leopard 45-52 for around $400,000 and replace all rigging, sails, engines and preferred brand electronics. I would replace the Diesel engine with Oceanvolt motors.

Which would you do and why?

If I replace most of the critical components (rigging, sails, engine, electronics) on an older hull, will I loose on my investment in the long run? Have I missed any critical components?

Also, is a 2013 hull (that has passed a survey) as good as a 2018 hull (that has passed a survey)?

Thanks.
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Old 11-06-2021, 03:07   #2
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, uniopp.

I think that the condition of a specific hull is more important, than it's year of birth.
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Old 11-06-2021, 03:08   #3
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by uniopp View Post
If I replace most of the critical components (rigging, sails, engine, electronics) on an older hull, will I loose [lose] on my investment in the long run?
Sorry if I'm bursting your bubble, UniOpp, but you are buying a sailboat.

Of course you will lose on your investment in the long run.

We are only ever stewards of our sailboats for as long as we own them. Sailboats are *not* investments (well, not in the traditional sense).

Fair winds,
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Old 11-06-2021, 03:13   #4
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Scenario 1. Things are already going wrong at in the 2018 boat. Things have been going wrong from day 1.

Scenario 2. Youíll never recoup the costs put into this boat....but youíll get a boat exactly as you want it.

I have a suspicion as well, that unless you do all of your own work, the costs of drivetrain conversion plus supporting electrical system will put you right back at the $600k mark in a jiffy.
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Old 11-06-2021, 03:41   #5
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Assuming there are multiple examples of both boats to choose from, scenario 1 is likely the lower cost option.

Scenario 2 will cost more over time.
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Old 11-06-2021, 03:54   #6
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

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Of course you will lose on your investment in the long run.

I know we will always lose money but which scenario is worthwhile doing?
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Old 11-06-2021, 04:14   #7
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Depends on how quickly you want to get sailing. It's not just the money with scenario 2, it's time. (And let's be clear - there WILL be work you have to do on scenario 1, work you don't know about yet). The major projects you mention will take time to either do yourself or finding a competent person/company that is not already swamped.
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Old 11-06-2021, 04:53   #8
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

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I know we will always lose money but which scenario is worthwhile doing?


Both.....but it depends on your goals and your personality.

Only you can answer that
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Old 11-06-2021, 05:13   #9
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

In scenario #2 why exactly would you have to replace all of those items on a boat that is only 8 years old? depending on location, maintenance # hours sailed, etc. most of those items are likely to be in pretty good shape...
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Old 11-06-2021, 09:51   #10
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Electric motors " are the kiss of death on resale" (sic)
from 2 catamaran brokers
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:36   #11
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

For most buyers of a used boat, the electronics have to work. Which brand - for most not important. Whether 5 years old or 10 - also not that important, if they work. Trouble with electronics is not that rare, so, working electronics is a big big plus. Well installed also. Age - less important. So, the investment on instrument brand will not pay back in a few years - very likely.



Electric instead of Diesel - why? Range is much shorter at similar weight (incl. tank, fuel vs. batteries). Shorepower may be an issue underway in some places. To overcome this on electric propulsion, you would need a genset - and carry diesel.



Sails - depending on condition.


Standing rigging might at least want a good survey after 8 years. If weaknesses are known on a design, replacement might be a good idea.


Which one? The newer ones might still have toothing issues, the older ones may have first wear and tear.
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Old 11-06-2021, 14:06   #12
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

["I]If I replace most of the critical components (rigging, sails, engine, electronics) on an older hull, will I loose on my investment in the long run? Have I missed any critical components?[/I]"
Someone beat me to it, but the word investment is totally misplaced in this context. Nothing to do with a boat is an investment. It is an indulgence, indulged in by people who have enough money to indulge their preferences. Nothing wrong with that - you can't take it with you - but please don't kid yourself. When you spend money on a boat - it is spent. Any upgrading you do may make your boat more saleable when you come to sell it, but if you get any return at all, it will be cents on the dollar.
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Old 11-06-2021, 16:42   #13
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

uniopp:

You posit two scenarios and then you ask explicitly "Which would you do and why?"

My answer is this: NEITHER!

The very fact that you ask the question at all - as well as the manner in which you ask it - has the semblance of your not yet being an experienced sailorman. Even that you have very little sailing, let alone seafaring, experience.

And that is WHY my answer is what it is, a matter about which you have also asked for illumination,

If my surmise regarding the extent of your experience is close to the mark, you would, IMO, do yourself a tremendous favour by "getting your feet wet" in a smallish vessel - say 36 or 40 feet - in which you can learn to be a sailor AND a skipper. And from which you can walk away if, as happens to many, your dream turns out to be a mere mirage.

Let the vessel be an old one. Let the vessel be a simple one. Let the vessel be one whose acquisition cost is no more than you can walk away from with a smile still on your face :-)!

All the best!

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Old 11-06-2021, 19:24   #14
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
Electric motors " are the kiss of death on resale" (sic)
from 2 catamaran brokers

I'm interested to hear why?

Is it because the technology is not quite there yet?


I would actually prefer a hybrid system that allows both diesel and electric to power the same drive. Something like the external parallel in the Antares 44 Hybrid (although that is a shaft drive).
https://www.antarescatamarans.com/an...ybrid-details/


I recently came accross this Yanmar sail drive but I don't think the diesel actually drives the prop. I think it is just a charging generator.
https://www.yanmar.com/ltc/global/ma...picIndex03.jpg


Anyway, I'm interested to know more about why the resale price will be a problem.
Thanks
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Old 11-06-2021, 19:28   #15
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Re: Old Hull Vs Newer Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
In scenario #2 why exactly would you have to replace all of those items on a boat that is only 8 years old? depending on location, maintenance # hours sailed, etc. most of those items are likely to be in pretty good shape...

Maybe I don't but I want to make sure that I have a reliable vessel for some Atlantic and Pacific crossings.
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