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mglonnro · 15-09-2021, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

Truth is, as much as I hate saying it the youtubers all have financial involvements with the vendors they talk about on their channels. I would hardly expect one of them to say, "we tried it and it sucked" when they are getting the system free or nearly free

Keep in mind this is the third oceanvolt system they have installed...

Not saying it isn't a good system, I just won't say it is based on the testimony of someone being compensated to use it.

I do think that they would much prefer to report good rather than bad results.
However, I also think and assume (as of most people) that they have enough integrity to be truthful about what they say and share.

The end result might be biased, but at the same time, it might also be really useful. At least to get a rough feeling about how the system works when it's working really well.

Still, and as I wrote before, recording and releasing (all the data) data would be fantastic and much better.

Muaddib1116 · 15-09-2021, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L

So how many watts are generated per 0.1 nm of drag?

Dan was obviously not being very scientific, but if I recall, I think he was seeing 300W+ at around 6.5kts SOG. He then turned the system off and went up to 6.6/6.7, and turned the system back on and stayed the same and then went up to 6.8, so the wind was picking up a bit. It would be very hard to be scientific about it outside of a lab. Start watching the video at around 24min for his "testing".

Muaddib1116 · 15-09-2021, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

And the price to you or I? about 40,000 $ or Euro.

Guess its back to the alternator on the propshaft then

Honestly, the system seems pretty great, but yeah, the price is up there. I suppose if you were already considering a repower, it might be something to look into.

Paul L · 15-09-2021, 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Dan was obviously not being very scientific, but if I recall, I think he was seeing 300W+ at around 6.5kts SOG. He then turned the system off and went up to 6.6/6.7, and turned the system back on and stayed the same and then went up to 6.8, so the wind was picking up a bit. It would be very hard to be scientific about it outside of a lab. Start watching the video at around 24min for his "testing".

Don't have the bandwidth to be downloading long Youtubes.
So how much practical use is 300 watt-hrs? How many watts does it consume to motor at 6kts, in comparison?

tp12 · 15-09-2021, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

No problem with it being low drag. The problem is that the energy used (drag) has to be more than the energy stored by the battery. In other words, the drag during generation will be more than the propulsion available as a result. It slows the boat by a fraction of a knot? It will propell the boat at a smaller fraction of a knot for the same distance/time. Any other outcome would be a perpetual motion machine.

Does it really have to be more? Pragmatically speaking, you're relying on a free resource to drive the prop and charge the batteries - the wind. You're paying a small penalty in boat speed but so what, you're cruising and charging the batteries.

The servoprop's pitch control has increased the gains from regen and higher gains are attainable at higher speeds making the case for multi's, which can attain speeds higher than UMA (Roberts 35 I think) better.

Why isn't sacrificing a small amount of boat speed to charge the batteries beneficial to a cruiser? It's not all about propulsion - it's a sailing boat and you other electrical systems that will benefit from the input. Catamarans, especially, also have the ability to carry quite a bot of solar

NaClyDog · 15-09-2021, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

And the price to you or I? about 40,000 $ or Euro.

Guess its back to the alternator on the propshaft then

Something isn't adding up... the OV site states the following;

Quote:

WHAT IS THE COST OF AN OCEANVOLT SYSTEM?

Oceanvolt electric motor systems typically cost about 20-25% more than comparable diesel systems. However, lower maintenance and fuel consumption (in a hybrid system) costs are considerably lower, so the difference in system cost can be recovered in about 2-3 years.

How is roughly $40K 20-25% more than the cost of a traditional system??? How on earth do you get a ROI in 2-3 years?

More marketing hype it seems...

tp12 · 15-09-2021, 07:26

I'd further add that it's very easy to say 'physics is physics' or make other vague or generalised statements about their involvement with Oceanvolt while ignoring the fact that they took video of the results - no one is actually addressing the results they got

Muaddib1116 · 15-09-2021, 07:27

Have you priced out a new diesel for a ~35ft boat recently? Repowering with a new Yanmar a couple years ago in Connecticut was more than 40k. Maybe it's cheaper in other parts of the US, certainly in other parts of the world. But I'd imagine that in the UK, much of Western Europe, and most coastal parts of the US that it's somewhat competitive, pricewise. The question is does it give you the same utility, which I think is a no for most cruisers. But maybe a yes for weekend/day sailing.

Muaddib1116 · 15-09-2021, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tp12

I'd further add that it's very easy to say 'physics is physics' or make other vague or generalised statements about their involvement with Oceanvolt while ignoring the fact that they took video of the results - no one is actually addressing the results they got

I think the results they showed were probably accurate to what they were experiencing, ie they weren't lying. But the brief bit they showed was hardly scientific, and certainly not comprehensive. I think I believe that the system works pretty well, and that it wasn't a fluke. But as NaCLyDog said, it's definitely subjective whether the results are worth the performance loss, and it would be in Oceanvolts interest to come up with some more objective lab results.

NaClyDog · 15-09-2021, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tp12

I'd further add that it's very easy to say 'physics is physics' or make other vague or generalised statements about their involvement with Oceanvolt while ignoring the fact that they took video of the results - no one is actually addressing the results they got

I think you may be ignoring the fact that anyone can show anything on video... regardless of the truth or accuracy of it.

If their system was so great, why has it required 2 replacements? Do they have any additional power generation and can they actually supply all their power needs by simply sailing? How long can they actually be "off-grid" without plugging-in or starting the genset?

If something sounds too good to be true... it usually is.

Paul L · 15-09-2021, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Have you priced out a new diesel for a ~35ft boat recently? Repowering with a new Yanmar a couple years ago in Connecticut was more than 40k. Maybe it's cheaper in other parts of the US, certainly in other parts of the world. But I'd imagine that in the UK, much of Western Europe, and most coastal parts of the US that it's somewhat competitive, pricewise. The question is does it give you the same utility, which I think is a no for most cruisers. But maybe a yes for weekend/day sailing.

I repowered with a new Yanmar 3YM in 37ft boat for usd$12,500 installed in Florida about 7 years ago.

tp12 · 15-09-2021, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

I think you may be ignoring the fact that anyone can show anything on video... regardless of the truth or accuracy of it.

If their system was so great, why has it required 2 replacements? Do they have any additional power generation and can they actually supply all their power needs by simply sailing? How long can they actually be "off-grid" without plugging-in or starting the genset?

If something sounds too good to be true... it usually is.

Dismissing a result isn't the same as addressing it. If all you've got to offer is they're lying then whatever dude, I'd rather talk with someone else

tp12 · 15-09-2021, 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I think the results they showed were probably accurate to what they were experiencing, ie they weren't lying. But the brief bit they showed was hardly scientific, and certainly not comprehensive. I think I believe that the system works pretty well, and that it wasn't a fluke. But as NaCLyDog said, it's definitely subjective whether the results are worth the performance loss, and it would be in Oceanvolts interest to come up with some more objective lab results.

They showed the performance loss and the results. You haven't substantively addressed that.

BillKny · 15-09-2021, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Have you priced out a new diesel for a ~35ft boat recently? Repowering with a new Yanmar a couple years ago in Connecticut was more than 40k. Maybe it's cheaper in other parts of the US, certainly in other parts of the world. But I'd imagine that in the UK, much of Western Europe, and most coastal parts of the US that it's somewhat competitive, pricewise. The question is does it give you the same utility, which I think is a no for most cruisers. But maybe a yes for weekend/day sailing.

I don't know where you are getting your prices from, but they are WAY, WAY out of line, unless those mechanics in CT make more than lawyers....

I know someone who just repowered a 40 foot boat with a new Beta engine for about $20K all up.