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Old 23-10-2018, 15:25   #1411
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Apparently yacht racing is not the only thing that you don't understand.
That's as bad as the "magical thinking" comments. It seemed like a legit question to me.
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Old 23-10-2018, 16:02   #1412
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by ssmoot View Post
That's as bad as the "magical thinking" comments. It seemed like a legit question to me.
Ok, how about it seems he does not understand what it's like in the southern ocean? Despite there are plenty of compelling videos for anyone who is interested in understanding what racing down there is like, IF they're interested? Which of course he isn't.

Or that in the case of a dismasting ( a VERY real possibility) the propulsion is life saving equipment, not a nice to have?

Or that the power generating system is also life saving in it's importance, so it's reliability is paramount?

Or that these race teams can use whatever equipment they choose, it's not because it is free, which in many cases it is not?

Or that there are stringent rules & specifications imposed by the race committee on critical systems equipment?

Or that Alex Thomson is betting his life on the reliabilty of the Oceanvolt system? As did Coleman in the last Vendee Globe with OV.

And yet despite the fact that these professionals at the top of the game have made this choice for travelling as fast as they can in the most dangerous seas on the planet, some have the temerity to disgorge ignorant ( in the true sense of the word, not being perjorative) opinions on, it seems, any subject.

It just gets a bit tiring, and I thought it worth pointing out.

If you really don't know what's at stake in the Vendee Globe, fine. You can find out if you so choose. Or not.
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Old 23-10-2018, 16:10   #1413
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Apparently yacht racing is not the only thing that you don't understand.
yep. Theres plenty of stuff I don't understand. Brain surgery. Religions. Women. Just to name a few things. Technology used to by my strong point but now I stand corrected.


I guess you can explain to me in plain words why what exactly your quote says about reliability of OV, good or bad.
All I read is that someone plans to install OV. I can't see anything about actual experience. Only an anouncement, most likely by someone who gets the install & premium support for free.


Given your pretty rude answer I suspect you can tell me how many hours these racing yacht clock on each leg. Because I really have no clue. 2? 20? 200?


BTW: You are barking at the wrong tree. A few posts up the thread I asked you about links to OV installations / success stories out of genuine interest. You haven't given one but instead you keep bullying me.
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Old 23-10-2018, 16:15   #1414
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by rabbi View Post

I have no clue about racing. How many engine hours do they typically clock?

To a close approximation: Zero.


This is about as relevant to CF as tractor pull results and sawmills.


Added: Here's the 2016 Rule:
The propeller shaft’s flange to each boat’s engine must have a drill hole of at least 4mm to allow a sealed cable to go through. The breakage of this cable may lead to the competitor being disqualified.


So the much vaunted OV re-gen will also be unusable.
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Old 23-10-2018, 16:15   #1415
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Or that in the case of a dismasting ( a VERY real possibility) the propulsion is life saving equipment, not a nice to have?
So you think that he will be able to motor anywhere in case of a dismasting? Without fossil fuel, only on batteries and some solar?
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Old 23-10-2018, 16:24   #1416
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Ok, how about it seems he does not understand what it's like in the southern ocean? Despite there are plenty of compelling videos for anyone who is interested in understanding what racing down there is like, IF they're interested? Which of course he isn't.

Or that in the case of a dismasting ( a VERY real possibility) the propulsion is life saving equipment, not a nice to have?

Or that the power generating system is also life saving in it's importance, so it's reliability is paramount?

Or that these race teams can use whatever equipment they choose, it's not because it is free, which in many cases it is not?

Or that there are stringent rules & specifications imposed by the race committee on critical systems equipment?

Or that Alex Thomson is betting his life on the reliabilty of the Oceanvolt system? As did Coleman in the last Vendee Globe with OV.

And yet despite the fact that these professionals at the top of the game have made this choice for travelling as fast as they can in the most dangerous seas on the planet, some have the temerity to disgorge ignorant ( in the true sense of the word, not being perjorative) opinions on, it seems, any subject.

It just gets a bit tiring, and I thought it worth pointing out.

If you really don't know what's at stake in the Vendee Globe, fine. You can find out if you so choose. Or not.
As said I know next to nothing about racing. Never watched one, don't know where or what they are racing, etc.

I can imagine (!) they use their motors only very few hours per leg. Simply because its a sailboat race.

They need tons of electricity for other things, so they have to have batteries, solar and tow generators. Also their equipment needs to survive only one race or maybe even one leg.
Replacing that heavy ICE installation with a smaller and lighter propulsion & generation system like OV makes sense.

But their use case is very different from cruising in my view.

This story just doesn't tell me anything about reliability in a cruising setting. Or cost effectiveness. Or durability. Or efficiency.
Maybe I'm too dumb to read between the lines like you do.
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Old 23-10-2018, 16:57   #1417
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
Replacing that heavy ICE installation with a smaller and lighter propulsion & generation system like OV makes sense.

They can't use the installed propulsion system for generation since they have to seal the prop shaft (to ensure that they don't use the propulsion system).


They are totally dependent on solar and a towed hydro-generator if they aren't using the commonly fitted small fossil fuel generator.



Note this is still "pie in the sky" stuff. It's just:
"Now well into the build process of the multi-million pound boat, the team has declared its intention to switch to an electric motor, charged by onboard solar panel technology."


Let's wait and see.
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Old 23-10-2018, 17:08   #1418
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
They can't use the installed propulsion system for generation since they have to seal the prop shaft (to ensure that they don't use the propulsion system).


They are totally dependent on solar and a towed hydro-generator if they aren't using the commonly fitted small fossil fuel generator.



Note this is still "pie in the sky" stuff. It's just:
"Now well into the build process of the multi-million pound boat, the team has declared its intention to switch to an electric motor, charged by onboard solar panel technology."


Let's wait and see.
And the just-around-the-corner technology of Solar Sails

Solar Cloth System - Réalisations

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Old 23-10-2018, 17:59   #1419
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
So you think that he will be able to motor anywhere in case of a dismasting? Without fossil fuel, only on batteries and some solar?
The Vendee rule is that every boat must be able to motor at hull speed for 8 hours, in case of emergency like dismasting. So the answer to your question is yes. He has no fossil fuel generator, but maybe he'll have fuel cell tech as well? Dunno.

FYI, in the last Vendee globe Conrad Coleman was dismasted in the southern Atlantic and lost his solar and made it back to finish the race on only the Oceanvolt regeneration and his jury rigged boom. That's over 2,000 NM keeping the boat electronics, comms and watermaker going on the regen alone. He did not use the SD15 as a motor or break the seal on his generator, & therefore was not disqualified. A helluvan achievement, if you ask me.
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Old 23-10-2018, 18:02   #1420
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
They can't use the installed propulsion system for generation since they have to seal the prop shaft (to ensure that they don't use the propulsion system).


They are totally dependent on solar and a towed hydro-generator if they aren't using the commonly fitted small fossil fuel generator.



Note this is still "pie in the sky" stuff. It's just:
"Now well into the build process of the multi-million pound boat, the team has declared its intention to switch to an electric motor, charged by onboard solar panel technology."


Let's wait and see.
No, that is not correct. There is no cable, and they can use the motor for regeneration, as did Coleman in the last Vendee to get home after his dismasting. There is an electronic "lock" on forward/reverse propulsion & the race committee has full remote monitoring of motor useage anyway.
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Old 23-10-2018, 19:56   #1421
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
I can't see that this announcement gives any indication about OV reliability. All I read is that someone very with deep pockets plans to have a OV unit installed, most likely for free. Doesn't say anything good or bad about OV.

I have no clue about racing. How many engine hours do they typically clock?
The idea is to not use the engine at all. Fossil fuels are used on these boats, to run a generator to power comms and navigation equipment.

It seems this boat will rely on solar, rather than a generator. TBH I'm surprised this hasn't been done before, since semi flexible solar panels and lithium batteries are so light, and the required motoring ability is fairly minimal, it would seem probable that the power requirements could be met with less overall weight.
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Old 23-10-2018, 22:30   #1422
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
The Vendee rule is that every boat must be able to motor at hull speed for 8 hours, in case of emergency like dismasting. So the answer to your question is yes. He has no fossil fuel generator, but maybe he'll have fuel cell tech as well? Dunno.

More disinformation from the usual suspects?


IMOCA Class Rules 2018:
C.4.1 ENGINE
(a) Performances to be achieved
When motorised, the boat must achieve the following performance and these measurements must be able to be
checked at a race finish
:
Traction value of 280 daN at a fixed boat (boat tied to the dock, traction measured with a dynamometer)
for 15’.
-
Generate a 5 knots speed at sea with a demonstrated range of 5 hours.
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Old 24-10-2018, 00:17   #1423
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

I stand corrected. I was relaying information I had from a verbal conversation, which apparently is incorrect.

But there is a difference between disinformation and misinformation. The former is deliberate, the latter is just wrong information.

Are you accusing me of deliberately misleading CFers?


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Old 24-10-2018, 00:30   #1424
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Lots of blather about safety and reliability but these are race boats where they happily push to the limits...often to the breaking point.

If they think it will squeeze an extra 0.1kt out of the boat they will risk a marginal piece of equipment. Also budgets go out the window, so who pays for it or if it's cost effective for a cruiser tells us nothing about it's viability for a cruiser.

Reality is these boats are closely tracked and in most cases, it's a rescue or jury rigged sail that gets them home...motoring home is not a serious consideration.
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Old 24-10-2018, 00:32   #1425
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
I stand corrected. I was relaying information I had from a verbal conversation, which apparently is incorrect.

But there is a difference between disinformation and misinformation. The former is deliberate, the latter is just wrong information.

Are you accusing me of deliberately misleading CFers?


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I guess you have a statistically unusual amount of "misinformation" in your posts as you really do appear to believe in magic electric HP.
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