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Old 24-03-2017, 12:52   #661
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Torquedo specs an input of 10kw and a propulsion force of 5.6kw. Ie 56% efficient. They do not specify how they come to that number, or the shaft power, so I am giving the maximum benefit of the doubt and assuming that 56% includes transmission losses, but not prop losses.

If they wanted to use standard outboard rating metrics this would be much easier on everyone, except their advertising department.
When it comes to marketing material (Torquedo) VS user reports (OV) I'm inclined to believe the latter.
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Old 24-03-2017, 15:08   #662
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by SDChristian View Post
When it comes to marketing material (Torquedo) VS user reports (OV) I'm inclined to believe the latter.
Torqeedo for me has been a major disappointment. I was quite keen on the 30kW motor for awhile ( the marketing blurbs are great!) , until I dug deeper.When I asked for basic performance information, it was either NEVER forthcoming, or eventually on some point they employed obfuscation (baffle with ********), and evasiveness.

Then there is the seeming total lack of actual installations of Deep Blue, and I hear they are "discontinuing" it. In the only installation of the 30kW Deep Blue I had the chance to talk to, he said he got the same range whether he went half speed or full speed, and both ranges were well below what was expected from Torqeedo's "assurances". He sent it back and demanded a refund.
That indicates something very wrong with the efficiency of the 30kW motor.

Coupled with the discovery of the number of failures of their outboard range which has been well documented ( Panbo etc), I lost all confidence in them being able to come up with a viable solution.

OceanVolt, totally different story
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Old 24-03-2017, 20:37   #663
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Torquedo specs an input of 10kw and a propulsion force of 5.6kw. Ie 56% efficient. They do not specify how they come to that number, or the shaft power, so I am giving the maximum benefit of the doubt and assuming that 56% includes transmission losses, but not prop losses.

If they wanted to use standard outboard rating metrics this would be much easier on everyone, except their advertising department.
Where in here : Electric outboards by Torqeedo does Torquedo specs an input of 10kw and a propulsion force of 5.6kw. For what model?
Can you give a direct quote?
I'm sure you know 5.6 kW is power, not force.
If efficiency is 56%, then losses are 100% - 56% = 44%.
56% therefore do not include losses. If it does, it is not efficiency.

If the product is not totally useless, only reasonable assumption is that 44% includes prop losses, as all the other losses even combined should be much less than that.
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Old 24-03-2017, 21:23   #664
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Another Sa View Post
Where in here : Electric outboards by Torqeedo does Torquedo specs an input of 10kw and a propulsion force of 5.6kw. For what model?
Can you give a direct quote?
I'm sure you know 5.6 kW is power, not force.
If efficiency is 56%, then losses are 100% - 56% = 44%.
56% therefore do not include losses. If it does, it is not efficiency.

If the product is not totally useless, only reasonable assumption is that 44% includes prop losses, as all the other losses even combined should be much less than that.
Go to

Outboard - Cruise 10.0 R - Torqeedo

Then click on specs.

Input power in watts 10,000
Propulsive power in watts 5,600
Comparable petrol outboards (propulsive power) 20 HP
Comparable petrol outboards (thrust) 25 HP
Maximum overall efficiency in % 56
Static thrust in lbs* 315
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Old 25-03-2017, 02:16   #665
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Go to

Outboard - Cruise 10.0 R - Torqeedo

Then click on specs.

Input power in watts 10,000
Propulsive power in watts 5,600
Comparable petrol outboards (propulsive power) 20 HP
Comparable petrol outboards (thrust) 25 HP
Maximum overall efficiency in % 56
Static thrust in lbs* 315
Interesting prop. That's obviously how they get as much static thrust. But you have to wonder what it does in terms of higher speed motoring and what sort of drag that has when sailing?

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Old 25-03-2017, 21:19   #666
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Guys, you asked for data from a real boat, and you just got it. And as predicted, now you are looking for any possible reason why the data is faulty, not good enough, not detailed enough, not to be trusted etc etc etc. How very predictable😂

You may think I'm a liar, and now on an open forum you have called me a liar in public. I will make another prediction right here and now that goes to your character. It is that when you are proven wrong by the hard data that will be released, you will not offer a sincere apology in public and admit you were wrong, all along.

I will publish data from our boat when it is launched, tested under adverse conditions.

By the way the skipper of this Schionning reported upwind motoring against 18 knots with NO drop in speed. Is that definitive? No. Is it conclusive? No. Is that double blind, independently verified data? No. It is only indicative, but somewhat valuable, nonetheless.

When I'm trouble shooting a system and I get numbers that make no sense...yeah, my first assumption is to look for what is wrong.

Now you conveniently added that it was against a 18kt headwind. Your just trolling us right?

You get independently verified results that match your claim, I'll not only eat my words, I'll put the developers of this system up with Archimedes, Newton & Einstein as they will have completely changed the way we understand physics.

Of course, this assumes no major "gotcha" clauses.
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Old 26-03-2017, 03:50   #667
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
When I'm trouble shooting a system and I get numbers that make no sense...yeah, my first assumption is to look for what is wrong.

Now you conveniently added that it was against a 18kt headwind. Your just trolling us right?

You get independently verified results that match your claim, I'll not only eat my words, I'll put the developers of this system up with Archimedes, Newton & Einstein as they will have completely changed the way we understand physics.

Of course, this assumes no major "gotcha" clauses.
No, I'm not trolling anyone. I'm reporting what I've heard directly from people who were on the boat during sea trials. They include the owner, the boat builder ( who happens to be arguably one of, if not the best, boat builders in Australia), the marine electrician who commissioned the OceanVolt system, and the OceanVolt Australian distributor.

I have also heard the comments about about how superior the handling of the boat is re docking & manouvering using the SD15's instead of the diesels. And also confirmed the boat is almost silent when under full power.

In Oz we have an expression when we are comparing 2 things and one is totally superior and the other is crap, and that is "chalk & cheese". That was the comment I heard a couple of times.

There is film and screenshots and graphs of the data from the OV monitoring system etc, but I don't have access to that. I'm sure it will be in the write ups.

I'll be looking up that recipe for crow pie......
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Old 26-03-2017, 05:25   #668
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
No, I'm not trolling anyone. I'm reporting what I've heard directly from people who were on the boat during sea trials. They include the owner, the boat builder ( who happens to be arguably one of, if not the best, boat builders in Australia), the marine electrician who commissioned the OceanVolt system, and the OceanVolt Australian distributor.
All those people have a vested interest in the system appearing to function well.
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Old 26-03-2017, 08:25   #669
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
All those people have a vested interest in the system appearing to function well.
Responded before I could. Every one of those people listed will look like idiots if it doesn't perform spectacularly. The problem is, it looks like someone is overstating the situation.

5hp outboard on my little 34' cat and it wouldn't even move forward against an 18kt wind, yet a drastically larger boat with drastically more windage is doing 10kts....I can pretty much guarantee if we ever get the full story, it won't look nearly as impressive.

Odd that such a modern company wouldn't have posted preliminary results to the web by now. and instead we have to hear about them 3rd hand. If true and realistic, I would expect the to trumpet it as loud as they can as soon as they can...followed by a mad rush of customers buying them as quickly as they can be produced.

Is there an online source, you could share?
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Old 26-03-2017, 09:02   #670
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Responded before I could. Every one of those people listed will look like idiots if it doesn't perform spectacularly. The problem is, it looks like someone is overstating the situation.

5hp outboard on my little 34' cat and it wouldn't even move forward against an 18kt wind, yet a drastically larger boat with drastically more windage is doing 10kts....I can pretty much guarantee if we ever get the full story, it won't look nearly as impressive.

Odd that such a modern company wouldn't have posted preliminary results to the web by now. and instead we have to hear about them 3rd hand. If true and realistic, I would expect the to trumpet it as loud as they can as soon as they can...followed by a mad rush of customers buying them as quickly as they can be produced.

Is there an online source, you could share?
Actually if the results are really that spectacular and it was me I would be keeping it under my hat. I would right now be hiring a 3rd party testing lab, or someone like Nigel Calder to come and test the system as is, and have their report in hand when I went public. Because of exactly the type of suspicion on this thread (warranted or not).

To make claims this impressive demands reports from people beyond reproach, because the claims are so impressive. Secondly if The you are smart they have to realize that the claims are so incredible that they may be misssing something, and need to have a fresh set of eyes look at the system to see what they may be missing.
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Old 26-03-2017, 10:45   #671
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

I don't have a dog in the fight but do admit to being interested in the tech. Here's an exchange on the Noosa Marine Facebook page March 14th entry.

Phil Walker: How are the electrics going I wonder?
Like · Reply · March 14 at 3:13am

Dennis Weglehner: Looks like they made it without a tow at least.
Like · Reply · 1 · March 14 at 5:12am

Noosa Marine: Got us to Mooloolaba with a 18 knot head wind and 1.5 m confused seas at an average of 6 knots.
Like · Reply · 3 · March 14 at 8:56am

Dennis Weglehner: Whats the range under those conditions? How fast would the genset power the boat alone with flat batteries in those conditions?
Like · Reply · March 14 at 9:52am · Edited

Julian Griffiths: That was just using gen set and nothing out of the batteries. 6 .5 knots average.
Like · Reply · March 14 at 7:21pm
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Old 26-03-2017, 10:47   #672
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

In the interests of providing full context to this, the boat had no rig at this point (hence why they were motoring). This will of course make the boat lighter and have significantly less windage.
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Old 26-03-2017, 10:52   #673
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Last post, I promise! When asked about the propulsion system here is the reply:

Jon Bellemare: Very interested in the propulsion system as well.
Like · Reply · March 24 at 11:59am

Noosa Marine: We have a 11 kw generator and 1.5 kw solar bank and 2, 15 kw motors. We can cruise at 7 knots straight off the gennie using no battery and only 2.5 ltr of deisel.
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 5:58am
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Old 26-03-2017, 14:19   #674
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Now we hear some numbers that make a little more sense. Cruises at 7 knots using 2.5l per hour correlates somewhat with 8kW. It's not quite right but believable. So an 11T light cat with no mast can cruise at 7 knots using 8kW which is about all she'll deliver (aka max cruise). With wind and seas against its somewhat less than that. And with regular diesels for $60k less money that same boat ought to be able to cruise at twice that speed with mast up.

It's fine if someone wants diesel/electric for the gee whiz factor. But it seems you will have to pay a lot more and cruise at about 1/2 speed. A similarly capable plain diesel setup geared and propped for 7kt max cruise should be just as efficient and would likely weigh less.
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Old 26-03-2017, 14:23   #675
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

With two X 15kW Motors, why only an 11kW genset?
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