Oceanic Catamaran

[lane]

Hi I'm new to this site and was wondering if anyone our here knew anything about the following boat a 1969 Oceanic Cutter Ketch 34 Catamaran. My wife and I are looking at this to buy and in a few years to retire on and shopefully start bluewater cruising. The boat seems to be in fair condition mainly needing TLC and the price seems to be super. Any helpful hints would be welcome. Thanks

[GordMay]

FWIW - Not familiar with the boat, but I don’t like what I see. http://www.2hulls.com/usedcatamaran-2004/articus.html
Looks pretty rough (as you might expect from a heavily used ‘69 model)
The inboard bilge fin keels would seem redundant on a catamaran.
Don't like the ketch (mizzen) rig on this boat (doesn't look right to me)
Looks like a low bridge deck clearance (might ‘pound’ in a seaway?).
Rudders might be a bit too far forward for good steerage.
Got to wonder about the pricing history: $45,000-$40,000-$33,000 - now- $25,000
Respectfully,
Gord May

[By Invitation]

I agree with GordMay.

Heard the expression: Rode hard and put away wet?

I would stay away from this boat unless you are planning on staying very close to shore.

[lane]

Thanks this is opinions I'm looking for. Another the 50" 88 model made of the ferro cement. Has anybody out here had much dealing with boats made of this?

[GordMay]

To see a previous discussion on cement boats goto: http://cruisersforum.com/showthread....t=ferro+cement

[lane]

Boy that was some long reading on the FC boats. But very informable. Although now I'm a little more confused. It seems that with FC you'll pretty much get a rock solid boat or crap doesn't seem to much room in between. Although I am still considering the 34' cat. It's in a price range (16K) that we can afford and if the hull and rigging are solid we'd already planned on gutting the inside and rebuilding to out taste.
We haven't done that much sailing I have always been a power boater in years past and have owned a NUMBER OF 30'+ POWER BOATS but with our plans and fuel prices only a sail boat will do. I've never sailed on a larger sized mono hull but we did charter a 35' wildcat catamaran out of Fl. a couple years ago and ran over to Bimini for a week and really liked it. Plus like the idea of cruising on a level plane. I guess that's the power boater coming out in me. Thanks for all your help and comparision between the two types of sail boats would be most welcome.

[lane]

Boy that was some long reading on the FC boats. But very informable. Although now I'm a little more confused. It seems that with FC you'll pretty much get a rock solid boat or crap doesn't seem to much room in between. Although I am still considering the 34' cat. It's in a price range (16K) that we can afford and if the hull and rigging are solid we'd already planned on gutting the inside and rebuilding to out taste.
We haven't done that much sailing I have always been a power boater in years past and have owned a NUMBER OF 30'+ POWER BOATS but with our plans and fuel prices only a sail boat will do. I've never sailed on a larger sized mono hull but we did charter a 35' wildcat catamaran out of Fl. a couple years ago and ran over to Bimini for a week and really liked it. Plus like the idea of cruising on a level plane. I guess that's the power boater coming out in me. Thanks for all your help and comparision between the two types of sail boats would be most welcome.

[Boracay]

It would be hard to find two more different types of sailing craft than ferro cement yachts and catamarans.
I'm sure the catamaran sailors will keep you straight about catamarans.
As one who built and sailed a ferro cement yacht for a while, if I was on a limited budget and a ferro yacht that suited me came up, I would give it some very careful consideration.
Weight is frequently considered a plus in a cruising yacht. It certainly make living on a boat much more comfortable.
Many ferro owner seem to have spent the money they saved on the hull on upgrades and maintenance, so there could be some good boats.
You would definitly need to find a surveyor who knew ferro before buying. He would particularly need to check for voids and stability.
As a former builder and sailor I would suggest that the real test of a FC yacht is in the sailing. Take the boat out in normal conditions and see how it handles on all points of sail.

[lane]

Thanks I'm sure the sailing between the 2 is like day and night. The main reason for these 2 is the deal (price). I'd perfer the cat for the level ride and shallow draft. The FC is 7' lots of places you couldn't go. Plus because of where it is setting and good survey could be an issue where as the cat is in fl. The other issue with the FC boat is the guy doesn't have any pics of the inside or for that matter any good ones of the outside. The write up looks good but don't they all when people are trying to sell stuff. Some of you may have seen it out on ebay,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

[Boracay]

I had a look at the pictures on ebay and I think it all comes down to a question of risk verses reward.
The boat could be a cruising boat, the price is interesting, and it does not look too bad in the pictures.
Some questions:-
1. Do you want a boat this big. It could be a real handful to sail, and there might be some serious maintainance issues.The docking and slipping charges will be high.
2. Can you afford to risk losing your money?
Assuming the answer to these questions is yes then you need to find someone in St. Maarten to talk to.
If you telephone some of the brokers and repair yards in St. Maarten I'm sure you will find a few people who will give you the scuttlebut on this boat. You could probably track down the local surveyor and have a chat to him. I'd recon its a small town, they should know the boat and a lot of them would love to have a long conversation if you get your time right.
If they don't know the boat then think long and hard about what you are doing.
Then you really have to decide how risky the boat would be to buy, and if you can afford the risk look at it yourself, engage a surveyor, do title searches etc etc etc..
For myself I would only buy a boat that big if I was ready to use it now and I had enough money in reserve to make any necessary repairs, and to keep me cruising for a few years.

[lane]

Yes these are the very question my wife and I have been talking about and have decide that regardless of how good the deal may seem that it is really just more boat then we want for a number of reasons. I think we'er going to continue to keep looking for a CAT. and not a mono hull.

[nswan]

Hi. Just read your request on info for Oceanic Catamaran. They, and many other successful cats, were designed in UK by a Bill O'Brien. They proved to be a very safe and comfortable ocean cruiser, the ketch rig keeping the individual sail areas small and managable in all conditions. If you want to read a first hand description of their capabilities, get hold of "Children of Cape Horn" written by Rosie Swales. She and her husband Colin sailed an Oceanic called 'Annelise' round the world. This very boat I spotted on the Gold Coast ( Australia) just last month and it was looking immaculate.

The cat in question 'Articus' is a stretched version, the original design being 30'. This was not a design option so has been engineered by a third party. I don't know the boat other than the 'photos on the website, but I do know that if it were for sale here in NZ, provided it was sound, I would buy it.

Hope that this is of some help. Neville Swan.

[sv_makai]

when we bought our Cat we were the first oneswe knew so we spent a lot of time researching Cat and design.

After looking at the boat you are interested in a desing item caught my eye. Much of our research indicated that cats with a deck that reaches to the bow instead of the netting are not recommend for blue water. This is due to the high water pressurse created at the bow when travel in seas. The tunnel traps the water and there is no place for relief. This is tends to be hard on the sturcture.

Also as pointed out above the sail plan along with the older cat design may provide difficult to sail up wind. This may not be a factor if you will be sailing the trades and downwind.

I would recommend spending some time research cats and designs related to your estimated cruising grounds. Don't let price be the sole determining factor.

We are much happier with our Voyage Yahct with a modern Cat design and sail plan that provides the benefit of the cat and the abiltiy to go to wind ward like a modern mono hull.

[nswan]

With reference to Capt Bil's comments, yes, if your prime requisite is speed,particularly to windward, you do need a tall rig. However, this type of sail plan has a high centre of effort and with the longer moment arm increases the heeling and pitching moments. It boils down to whether you want a cat in which to win races, or cruise comfortably.
With regard to the solid foredeck. The designs which have probably sailed more ocean miles than any other over the last three decades or so,with an impeccable safety record, are those of the Prout Bros. These have a solid foredeck as does the very successful Gemini range, built by USA's 'Performance Cruising'.
I know that if a trip to the bows is necessary I'd sure as hell prefer to have something solid under my feet.
Neville Swan.

[sv_makai]

Agree, many of the builders such have Prout have an excellent reputation. But not all boats or models meet the needs of a safe and comfortable blue water cruiser.

Research is important. Understand what your requirements are so that a boat can be found that meets your needs.

It is also important to know the boat, builder, and the general history of a model or builder that you are interested. It makes a big difference in long term quality. I believe older boats (as well as new) need thourogh research into the quaility and overall suitability. There are a lot of boats the are sea worthy, but it doesn't mean I would want to go to sea on them.

Since we have been out we have met people who have given up our wonderful life style because the boat they bought doesn't meet the needs.

Just something to think about. We read, reserached, and rode for several years before we bought Makai.