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Old 02-07-2017, 08:56   #46
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

The trimaran concept, wedding a monohull to amas with no living space in them, seems to have found its niche in smaller, sometimes-trailerable racers, rather than cruising boats; but cruising boats are the lion's share of the market. I mean, a tri is basically a cat with a monohull replacing the bridge deck and no livable space in its outriggers. Tris as a niche are fast and exciting, and attract monohull sailors who love them for the pure sailing of them. But for cruising? The much LARGER tris that have been built look more like cats with submersible bridge decks.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:00   #47
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Damn, now you tell me!
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:06   #48
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Originally Posted by danielamartindm View Post
The trimaran concept, wedding a monohull to amas with no living space in them, seems to have found its niche in smaller, sometimes-trailerable racers, rather than cruising boats; but cruising boats are the lion's share of the market. I mean, a tri is basically a cat with a monohull replacing the bridge deck and no livable space in its outriggers. Tris as a niche are fast and exciting, and attract monohull sailors who love them for the pure sailing of them. But for cruising? The much LARGER tris that have been built look more like cats with submersible bridge decks.
That analogy of tris being cats with a submersible bridge deck, is all wet.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:50   #49
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Trimarans are for sailors.
Catamarans are for tourists.
I would love to get my hands on the Liahona drawings but alas they appear to be gone. [emoji24]


I wonder if the crews of the Americas Cup catamarans would agree[emoji38]
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:07   #50
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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I wonder if the crews of the Americas Cup catamarans would agree[emoji38]
why do you need Liahonas plans? , she could be bought at a good price, much cheaper than building.
.looks like a very comfortable home, currently parked in the back of Walter Greene’s yard. Stephen
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Old 02-07-2017, 13:17   #51
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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I wonder if the crews of the Americas Cup catamarans would agree[emoji38]
I am not sure they are doing any sailing we will do. I hadn't take my formula 1 on the street lately?
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Old 02-07-2017, 13:42   #52
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Aside for stated reasons. I do find trimaran to be promising in long distance motor cruiser type of designs.
Adastra had proven itself to be fuel efficient enough to do long distance passage making without refuel, of course the stability afforded by the amas make it comfortable underway without the need of fins or active stabilizer to dampen rolling.
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Old 02-07-2017, 14:32   #53
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

There does seem to be an awful lot of ill informed comment here, it seems by people who have not owned or sailed tris much.

As stated by those who have owned them, tris are lovely boats to sail. In most conditions a tri will be sweeter to sail than a mono or a cat. When my Twiggy would get hit by a gust it would heel slightly and then take off. My cat is far less dynamic.

As for not wanting to do long trips - tris have sailed around the world. A quick Google search will let you see that tris are the weapon of choice for those who sail at the very limits of speed in the world's worst conditions. The Ultime boats - 100plus racing machines are all tris.

One respondent talked of tris having less stability than cats - this is wrong. For the same weight a tri will almost always have more sideways stability. They are wider and the two major factors of stability are weight and beam. Designers use the distance from the centre of gravity to the centre of buoyancy. This distance is almost always greater on a tri. Tris are often lighter than cats and also often have bigger rigs, this can make them more prone to flipping but that is a factor of weight and sail, not the tri configuration.

For someone wanting to get the benefits of a multihull, upright sailing, seaworthy shallow draft, large deck area and potential high speeds a tri is a great way to get going cheaply. Buying a tri secondhand is a fab way to get a great value multi, but a bad way to spend your time if building.

I built a 38ft cat and a 40ft tri, almost at the same time. The cat has three times the interior volume of the tri. Also the cat has divided accommodation where our kids could muck around out of my sight. The toilet is a 10 metre walk away from the galley on the cat and less than 2 metres away on the tri. I designed a really nice tri for my family. It took me over a year. Then one night I started drawing a cat, just for a lark. It had more room in one hull than the tri had in total, so we built a cat, a decision I have never regretted. The tri though is a great design and a fab boat for beautiful sailing for a small crew.

If we sold our boat, I would fly to the US and look for a tri. It is just the two if us now and a tri would be great again, but we love our cat and will keep her, and even with her relatively modest form she has extra space we really don't need.

cheers

Phil
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Old 02-07-2017, 14:49   #54
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Roger is still stealing oxygen as far as I know--and he is/was very active in the woodworking and flying things.

His plans are sold through Boatcraft Pacific, and they would have his contact number. They do not list the Liahona--but there are a few of them about in glass. Two have been listed for sale in America at reasonable prices.

Roger himself may still have plans for his trimaran--he built one for his own use apparently. As far as I know he has not designed any new boats for a while--but it is a long time now since I spoke to him and then only briefly.
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Old 02-07-2017, 16:46   #55
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Originally Posted by catsketcher View Post
There does seem to be an awful lot of ill informed comment here, it seems by people who have not owned or sailed tris much.

As stated by those who have owned them, tris are lovely boats to sail. In most conditions a tri will be sweeter to sail than a mono or a cat. When my Twiggy would get hit by a gust it would heel slightly and then take off. My cat is far less dynamic.

As for not wanting to do long trips - tris have sailed around the world. A quick Google search will let you see that tris are the weapon of choice for those who sail at the very limits of speed in the world's worst conditions. The Ultime boats - 100plus racing machines are all tris.

One respondent talked of tris having less stability than cats - this is wrong. For the same weight a tri will almost always have more sideways stability. They are wider and the two major factors of stability are weight and beam. Designers use the distance from the centre of gravity to the centre of buoyancy. This distance is almost always greater on a tri. Tris are often lighter than cats and also often have bigger rigs, this can make them more prone to flipping but that is a factor of weight and sail, not the tri configuration.

For someone wanting to get the benefits of a multihull, upright sailing, seaworthy shallow draft, large deck area and potential high speeds a tri is a great way to get going cheaply. Buying a tri secondhand is a fab way to get a great value multi, but a bad way to spend your time if building.

I built a 38ft cat and a 40ft tri, almost at the same time. The cat has three times the interior volume of the tri. Also the cat has divided accommodation where our kids could muck around out of my sight. The toilet is a 10 metre walk away from the galley on the cat and less than 2 metres away on the tri. I designed a really nice tri for my family. It took me over a year. Then one night I started drawing a cat, just for a lark. It had more room in one hull than the tri had in total, so we built a cat, a decision I have never regretted. The tri though is a great design and a fab boat for beautiful sailing for a small crew.

If we sold our boat, I would fly to the US and look for a tri. It is just the two if us now and a tri would be great again, but we love our cat and will keep her, and even with her relatively modest form she has extra space we really don't need.

cheers

Phil
Thanks Phil. I see these threads and shake my head but usually think the facts won't reach the people that are so far off the mark.
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Old 02-07-2017, 16:54   #56
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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I am not sure they are doing any sailing we will do. I hadn't take my formula 1 on the street lately?


Notice the smiley face and take the post as it was intended. There was a guy on CF that would recognize no other boat other than a mono as a sailboat, considered tris and cats as floating rafts. His loss.
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Old 02-07-2017, 18:52   #57
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Originally Posted by catsketcher View Post
...

As for not wanting to do long trips - tris have sailed around the world. A quick Google search will let you see that tris are the weapon of choice for those who sail at the very limits of speed in the world's worst conditions. The Ultime boats - 100plus racing machines are all tris.

...
Yes they have, but long distance speed record sailing is not quite the same thing as comfortable cruising.
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Old 02-07-2017, 19:46   #58
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

I looked as several tris and cats before buying a Seawind. It seemed to fit my needs best. Nothing I came across matched the ease of getting a C24 from a trailer into the water; easily done in 30 minutes or less. Went to some races and watches folks putting together and taking apart C27, C28, and C31 tris and have no doubt it is hard to match Ian's design for a boat you are trailering. As for sailing these Fboats will almost for sure be the fastest thing around. The C31 is not a bad cruising/camping boat. Problem is when you start adding weight with things like enough water to live on, reasonable food stores, solid ground tackle, solar, a good house battery bank, toys like diving and fishing gear, and a decent inflatable the boat is so heavy it is no longer fun to sail. On the other hand something like a Seawind can carry all that stuff and still be a 10 knot boat in 15 knots of wind. The only time I had second thoughts about my Seawind was when I met a guy with a F39. It really did have enough room and weight carrying ability for a cruiser like me. Not to mention it was a real 20 knot boat. But as the owner pointed out to me when sailing at 20 knots he needed a four man crew. And C31 owners are often quick to point out the boat is powerful enough to get in trouble when the wind pipes up. I have single handed my Seawind in 25 knots and never thought it was too much for me.

While I have no doubt the Seawind was the best choice for me at the time, it was just that the best choice for me. Other folks have different needs and a different boat may be a better choice. The key to choosing a boat is getting one that is right for what you are actually going to do with the boat, not for what you thing you will do with the boat.
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Old 02-07-2017, 20:16   #59
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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The key to choosing a boat is getting one that is right for what you are actually going to do with the boat, not for what you thing you will do with the boat.
That's a very good point! I would love to sail a trimaran, or perhaps a performance cat, though they wouldn't be anywhere near the comfortable cruising platform my classical mono is. For the same kind of money "invested".

Also, I believe maintaining three hulls instead of one, could prove a challenge....the upside except for the obvious speed advantage, would be the shallow draft, which would enable us to a myriad of potential anchorages and gunk holes, unavailable to a mono with a fixed keel.

It's all juggling all the pros and cons
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Old 02-07-2017, 20:47   #60
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Like Benz I have chosen to cruise on a heavy displacement monohull, but anchored and seemingly abandoned in La Laz is a 40 footish, most likely red under a layer of white guano, Dick Newick tri that makes me want to switch modes of transportation whenever I am near it. I think it probably has at least as much space as our Cape George. But we are old and don't need to go too fast anymore or need anymore long labors of love and hope. But a guy can dream you know.


That's not a Newick tri, but a Shuttleworth.
Shame to see her sit in such a sad state for so many years!
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