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Old 30-06-2017, 22:41   #31
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Originally Posted by LeeV View Post
I've had several mono sailors (I started as one), aboard who had plenty to learn with the various lines, continuous furlers and runners, but then had fun blasting along at 16-20 reaching.
Hey, no offence meant to Tri owners, I'm sure they're a 'blast' & I hope you have fun. i've never been on a Tri, but I can well imagine the Adrenalin rush, much like a 'rocket ride' I would imagine. Too late for me, I can't even stand on a rolling deck anymore.
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:34   #32
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Just curious. Nobody is mentioning Neel Trimarans. I have been following them for a few years. Why are they not popular. Lots of room and it appears they have the speed to match.
Hi Drylandsailor,
We are enjoying our 3rd season on our Neel 45,and for us it's has proven a good design for a cruising Tri,
our cruising is 2-3 months coastal each year so far,
There are always +&- for any boat but for us it's the ease that the Neel sails to 7-8kts whithout heeling over and the ride with 3 hulls seems softer than on a Cat,and my wife enjoys that all the living on the Neel is on one level without any stairs,
but I do envie the carry capacity of some Cats and the manoeuvrability of having 2 ngines when in tight areas (marinas)
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:32   #33
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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I've always considered a Tri as a Mono-hull with training floats (wheels) LOL
More like a mono with 2 jet engines
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Old 01-07-2017, 09:47   #34
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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quick note, Im not fond of the mono-cat and now apparently tri debates either, but some things are not refutable

read Wharrams unsafe in any sea

his notion is that the surface speeds of waves differ between the leading and trailing sides of the wave peak. The slower lee side holds or brakes the sponson, while the weather side sponson is lifted on the rising cresting faster moving leading front of the wave. Rotating the boat about its CG.

How far that goes is dependent the force of wind and water, in the worst cases beyond a point of no return it trips the boat over, but clearly the tri's defenses (with less outboard buoyancy on its lee) are less. Hence a greater propensity to roll.

Things that can make a difference?
the position and deployment of lifting keels.
the cross section form of the hulls, also as to grip. Where you want the lee side to forgive, ride up and lift.

I have no idea what you think you mean by 'you not only have center of buoyancy but the center of gravity to consider' which is the same in both cases. The margin lay at the comparing the extremes where sponson volume/buoyancy of a tri is less.
Is unsafe in any sea akin to Ralph Nadar's unsafe at any speed?

It must be me, I enjoyed both my tris and my Corvair.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:05   #35
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Is unsafe in any sea akin to Ralph Nadar's unsafe at any speed?

It must be me, I enjoyed both my tris and my Corvair.
its definitely a pun on Naders work, but it wasnt a book, seemed and read like a University paper and published by Yachting World or something similar. A healthy array of stats and diagrams included

However, taken at his word, Wharram was happier then with lashing, low aspect rigs, low to none existent upper works, and well 'ventilated' decks. Later on it seems to me his views moved further towards or closer to what we accept as modern catamarans, while still apart from floating condo's.

Has to be said his boats have an enviable safety record considering the sorts of people that bought into his philosophy, and built their own boats.

Still, I do think that seamanship can go some way to make up the differences. It necessarily follows that, all these boats are intrinsically different, and bring with them attributes that pursue different things.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:23   #36
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Originally Posted by ZULU40 View Post
its definitely a pun on Naders work, but it wasnt a book, seemed and read like a University paper and published by Yachting World or something similar. A healthy array of stats and diagrams included

However, taken at his word, Wharram was happier then with lashing, low aspect rigs, low to none existent upper works, and well 'ventilated' decks. Later on it seems to me his views moved further towards or closer to what we accept as modern catamarans, while still apart from floating condo's.

Has to be said his boats have an enviable safety record considering the sorts of people that bought into his philosophy, and built their own boats.

Still, I do think that seamanship can go some way to make up the differences. It necessarily follows that, all these boats are intrinsically different, and bring with them attributes that pursue different things.
I believe you summed it up. One cat is not like another nor are tris..
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:33   #37
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

The only issues I've observed, personally, after forty years living on a Searunner 40 are: It's REALLY tough to find a dock berth wide enough, or an available end or side tie, AND, when it comes time to repaint the decks, it means a lot of real estate to prep and cover coat. Once those are settled, you just have to get used to the ability to cook complex meals while screaming along on a fast reach, making sure that you have a pleasing companion to share that enormous bed that doesn't heel so much that unwarranted collisions occur, and not finding many folks to actually compete against.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:52   #38
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
Hey, no offence meant to Tri owners, I'm sure they're a 'blast' & I hope you have fun. i've never been on a Tri, but I can well imagine the Adrenalin rush, much like a 'rocket ride' I would imagine. Too late for me, I can't even stand on a rolling deck anymore.
Actually you would be a perfect candidate to move to a tri. Far more stability than a monohull, and a lot less rolling than a cat. That stability is why my mother bought a trimaran. It's the only boat she could comfortably move around on.

The speed potential was just added bonus not the decision maker.
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Old 01-07-2017, 13:12   #39
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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...
But there is no question that each catagory brings its own strengths... and weaknesses. So the OP asked the right questions, but without explaining quite what he wanted. Very likely, he had not decided.
Exactly, I am open in mono and foldable tri-direction (cats are out of the pot, because of transportability). Looking at models, price lists and reviews for both.

A bit of background: I live among a bunch of lakes in the middle of Europe, with limited holiday time. This means weekend sailing on the lakes with trailering once a lake is "finished" and trailer down to the Med in autumn. So far there wouldn't sleep many on the boat, especially not while the boat is at "home" on the lakes. Even during a trip in the Med we can resupply very often, sleep in an apartment, etc. This boat is definitely not for bringing the family with guests to the other side of the big pond...

Considered a few options, but a trailerable boat of any kind makes the most sense. If I have to rank my preferences:

#1: trailerability (=no trailer, no weekends, boat rotting forgotten in a pricey marina...), preferably easy self-launch.
#2: safety and seaworthyness: on occasion the boat has to do offshore (Med to Canaries) with a crew of 2, maximum 3.
#3: price (I don't have/won't spend under any financial construction 100k$ for a 30' boat of any kind - unless it has a ton weight keel of pure gold. =No new Dragonflys, Corsairs, etc...) Target: total below 50k$/40k€.
#3b: longevity, low maintenance costs.

Less important, but good to have:
#4: speed (adds safety to avoid weather, makes island-hopping in the Med easier with family)

#5: accommodation/storage capacity

The final decision is still a few months away, we decided that this season is half done anyway, I'll be on sail training during holidays anyway - thus actual purchase is shifted to next year. Plenty of time for research, maybe trial sailing.
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Old 01-07-2017, 13:44   #40
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Sounds like a foldable tri could be a good choice for you...just take those sales videos showing record time set up with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-07-2017, 13:52   #41
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Sounds like a foldable tri could be a good choice for you...just take those sales videos showing record time set up with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-07-2017, 15:47   #42
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Well--I actually own one and have done for years.

Nothing sails as sweetly as a trimaran--I am long gone on the gentlest of breezes while monos are waiting for wind, and although my next boat will be a cat, that does not mean I do not like tris--there are disadvantages to them but most of them have not been mentioned in the general conversation so far.

Tris are difficult to maneuver in a cross wind in confined spaces such as a marina.

Tris are difficult to insure in some places.

In really nasty weather they feel very safe--and this could be a problem for people unfamiliar with a cruising trimaran. These vessels are NOT the racing tris such as those by Irens. The Piver and its later derivatives, the Jim Brown Sea-runner and its derivatives, are very safe vessels as long as one does not push them beyond the limits that would see most monos hove to or running on bare poles.

Another disadvantage of a tri is the amount of materials required in its construction. It needs as much as a cat to construct, and the trimaran configuration needs substantial bulkheads to hold the configuration. Mine is an older design with cross beams--these are braced laterally abaft with the wing decks, and the beams themselves are substantial. Avoid a tri with cross beams--they are too heavy and too inconvenient.

A tri such as a Horstman has as good an accommodation system as most cats in that there is full utilisation of the large amas. For a cruising tri these are one of the better designs..a much improved Piver type designed for comfort rather than speed.

The centre hull of my Piver is certainly narrower than most monos--but the wing decks provide enough sleeping space for a very large bunk each side. There are more restrictions on the layout of a tri because of the narrower hull, but most of these can be overcome. Of course a bit more beam is going to be a big advantahge in that regard as compared to a mono--but when compared with a cat--there is nothing to prevent a large bridge deck being placed on a trimaran either--just that with the centre hull present no one really has bothered except perhaps Horstman.

If one looks at the statistics, trimarans have had some mishaps at sea--but a Roger Simpson designed Liahona trimaran survived a hurricane without damage in which several other vessels were lost..

If you are in the market for a trimaran--beware of wooden vessels. They ROT. Constant maintenance is required and it is on-going.

I am not familiar with the Condor range of trimarans so I can not comment.

My preferences among the ones I have seen would be the Simpson, Horstman or Marples (A derivative of the Jim Brown Sea Runner) and I would like them in foam sandwich construction and to be forty feet or so in length.

As for a catamaran--there are many designs from which to choose.
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Old 01-07-2017, 23:01   #43
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Trimarans are for sailors.
Catamarans are for tourists.
I would love to get my hands on the Liahona drawings but alas they appear to be gone. [emoji24]
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Old 02-07-2017, 08:33   #44
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
I've always considered a Tri as a Mono-hull with training floats (wheels) LOL
I have a neighbor who used to say that about my Dragonfly.
One day while he was showing off his new Catalina 38 on a daysail with neighbors aboard, a friend of mine and I absolutely blew his doors off on an upwind/downwind sail. While he was doing eight knots, we flew past doing over 17.
He slunk home and has never said another word to me about "training wheels".
I could have rubbed his nose in it, but have never said anything about that day to him.
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Old 02-07-2017, 08:50   #45
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

You talking about me?
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