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Old 16-02-2019, 16:55   #166
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaingregger View Post

I carry two jordan drogues and one 28' paratech sea anchor. When I do a passage I use Iridium go and Garmin Inreach. I get daily weather via Iridium and my buddies usually track the weather for me and let me know if anything is developing or bearing down on me. As a backup I have sailmail over the HF radio, which I can get grib files from but it's slow and sort of a pain to use. I prefer the Iridium go with PredictWind and the guys at PredictWind are OUTSTANDING in customer service so I'm condisering removing all the HF equipment on my boat.

So I have the following satcom devices:
1 Iridium go!
1 InReach
1 Sat phone
2 ACR PLBs
1 EPIRB

How much more safety communication does one really need? I think the HF radio is superflous at this point. But I'd be curious if anyone has a different opinion on that.
When I purchased my trimaran it came with both Jordan drogues and two Para-Tech sea anchors. Even though I had already read Larry Pardey's infomercia "Heaving-to: safety valve at sea" By Lin
& Larry Pardey August 1982 Sail Magazinel regarding the joys of sea anchors, the largest question I had was how do you switch from running on the drogues to setting the chute. I finally had someone answer the question as you did that you have to pick in advance. There is no way I would be out in the weather hauling in the drogues and turn the vessel and then run forward and set the anchor.

My Icom SSB worked very well even though the antennae was horizontal along the deck and between two of the hulls. Now think about it. It is absolutely crazy in my opinion based upon this experience to ever integrate the SSB into the rigging. If you lose the mast in a storm you also lose any ability to communicate using your SSB unless you are able to make your own SSB antennae. That by the way is not impossible if you have the right cable and connectors and time.

Of course if you have a standalone antennae the odds you will still have a working SSB after a demasting are greater. It all depends on where the mast falls.

BTW I found the question of where the mast falls to warrant enough thought to install custom tempered glass windows on my pilot house.

Another finer point you missed is one that I take very seriously. From my experience the single greatest threat to cruising sailors occurs on shore when they jump onto a motorcycle. I know several sailors who have had motorcycle accidents that cut their cruising lives short. It is now my policy to never ride on one especially since even a minor accident sending me to the emergency room would deplete my cruising kitty.

Also note that I ascend my mast using a dedicated line and a professional tree climbing harness. That of course draws the scorn of those who insist that it is safer in a professional bosun chair and redundant safely line. My reply to them is "Do you get onto a motorcycle without a helmet on?" They usually go quiet after that question.

My point here is that YES, you can get carried away with trying to reduce one threat while at the same time you are completely ignoring far greater threats. It is possible enjoy a long time cruising without getting carried away worrying about minor threats which are easily avoided.

One thing we do agree on is that the HF/SSB is overall no longer a requirement at all. You don't need a radio license to operate the Sat options and don't need the antennae.
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Old 16-02-2019, 17:52   #167
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

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Hello,
Curious what you think about having unstayed masts on a Horstman Trimaran?
Is it possible, what do you think? Lower maintenance etc perhaps?

Also, what do you think about powering such a trimaran as yours using 2 outboards in the Amas? They seem to be more economical, lighter, and easier to work on, replace than inboard. Of course, its gas on diesel. The Hondas seem to have extremely long life + electrical generation.
Do you know of any design, that would be a modernized Horstman tri about 45-55 feet? Homebuilt I mean, not a NEEL? The only one I can find is an older 50+ Chris White tri design, that's it (what do you think of Chris White's tri?(54 foot Hammerhead)
https://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/hammerhead-54

Can't seem to find any Horstman type designs...
Would love to see pics of your tri.
Schoolboy
One way White accomplished his rig, which is more like a Freedom rig, was to do a split rig instead of Bermuda. So are you going to go split or Bermuda? Further, I really don't see how to do this without spending a lot of money on an expensive mast step and customizing the base of the mast.

If the sole driving force here is lower maintenance costs then consider what you are using for rigging. Just dump the expensive stainless steel rigging wires/fittings.

My current setup is Dyneema backstays and galvanized forestay.

I admit the Dyneema I am using a pretty penny, however, for a smaller tri you can use low cost Dyneema lines that are massed produced to act as tow ropes. Heck, you could change these every two years if you like and still save over the cost of stainless.

If you are careful with how you hank on a foresail you can even use Dyneema for the forestay. I operated several years with Dyneema forestay and plastic slides ran up the line in order to reduce chaffing. I checked my line frequently to see if there was any chaffing and found none. This said I did notice the upper most slide was experiencing some wear. So it was the plastic slide and not the Dyneema line that was wearing. I changed to galvanized since I had the overall goal of changing from hank-on to roller furler.

I made the roller furler myself with the assistance of a machine shop. The base is an aluminum hub that spins on machined teflon surfaces. I used new galvanized wire and made certain it had no inner rope core. This was soaked in synthetic linseed oil and then left in the sun to dry. I then inserted the wire into a plastic sleeve that was simply some plastic water pipe. The outer surface is a stainless steel pipe with welded eyelets that then connected to the sail grommets using Dyneema line.

The machine shop also made a guide for the Dyneema line I wrapped around the drum.

I used the Crosby open spelter socket poured fittings. This enabled me to measure and cut the lines myself. The smallest sized fitting made by Crosby is perhaps too large for your vessel, however, there may be smaller versions available from another manufacturer.

One of the most difficult steps was attaching the sail to the roller furler. I basically had to wrap my legs around the stainless steel pole and get pulled aloft while attaching each eyelet along the way. For a smaller vessel it may be possible to do this when the sail is flat on the ground, roll the sail around the roller furler, and then raise it into place.
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Old 16-02-2019, 22:12   #168
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Ok,
So, does anyone know of any good trimaran plans in the 40-50 foot range?
The Horstman etc designs seem quite dated!

Also, is putting 2 outboards in the 2 amas of a trimaran a good idea? Distributing load, spreading weight? access? (hidden appearance too perhaps)

Schoolboy
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Old 16-02-2019, 23:42   #169
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoolboy View Post
Ok,
So, does anyone know of any good trimaran plans in the 40-50 foot range?
The Horstman etc designs seem quite dated!

Also, is putting 2 outboards in the 2 amas of a trimaran a good idea? Distributing load, spreading weight? access? (hidden appearance too perhaps)

Schoolboy
Lock Crowther's 40 foot Kraken fits.
Jay Kantola designs are also in this size range.

Have a look at the website I built for trimarans currently for sale.

See: https://www.trimaranforsale.com/

I separated trimarans with gasoline engines into a grouping I termed "coastal". True, a trimaran with a gasoline engine can be utilized for cruising. However, if you take a look at average prices being asked for a trimaran of equal size with diesel engine versus gasoline I think you will find the marketplace has spoken fairly loudly on the issue. Personally, I would accept a reconditioned diesel like a Yanmar over a brand new gasoline engine.

Rather than building for scratch I think finding a good used one and improving upon it would be the way to go if you want a cruising multihull.

There is a big Wharram cat currently in front of me that has two pods built out near each hull. I don't think it is a good idea to enclose the gasoline engine within the ama. The drop down pod approach sounds like a better idea. Wharram has a trimaran design and they are fairly easy to build if you are determined to build on your own. If you want to save time with a new Wharram, consider asking Andy Smith in the Philippines to act as your builder. The boom on my trimaran was re-purposed from a new mast he built for a trimaran. Hyde Sails is right there in the Philippines too.
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Old 17-02-2019, 03:50   #170
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

I think there is a little confusion. Andy Smith, who is a professional Wharram builder, has also built a Triskell trimaran, designed by Gilles Montaubin. But there are no Wharram trimarans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
There is a big Wharram cat currently in front of me that has two pods built out near each hull. I don't think it is a good idea to enclose the gasoline engine within the ama. The drop down pod approach sounds like a better idea. Wharram has a trimaran design and they are fairly easy to build if you are determined to build on your own. If you want to save time with a new Wharram, consider asking Andy Smith in the Philippines to act as your builder. The boom on my trimaran was re-purposed from a new mast he built for a trimaran. Hyde Sails is right there in the Philippines too.
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Old 17-02-2019, 05:08   #171
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

[QUOTE=schoolboy;2827618]Ok,
So, does anyone know of any good trimaran plans in the 40-50 foot range?
The Horstman etc designs seem quite dated!

Also, is putting 2 outboards in the 2 amas of a trimaran a good idea? Distributing load, spreading weight? access? (hidden appearance too perhaps)

Schoolboy[/QUOTE

Single diesel on the centerline or 2 gas Engines on the beams. Don’t put that weight on the amas. The added space for a mount & lifting mechanism, the remote start gear (if even possible), and the *very* strong possibility of dunking them repeatedly make this difficult. If you have them nearer the cockpit on the beams you also have the easier potential of tying them together so they steer with the rudder, greatly enhancing your steering, well worth having.
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Old 17-02-2019, 05:52   #172
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andres View Post
I think there is a little confusion. Andy Smith, who is a professional Wharram builder, has also built a Triskell trimaran, designed by Gilles Montaubin. But there are no Wharram trimarans.
Thank you for the correction. I assumed incorrectly.

BTW Andy built the boom I am using.. It was originally going to be the mast of a trimaran he built.
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Old 17-02-2019, 21:59   #173
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoolboy View Post
Ok,
So, does anyone know of any good trimaran plans in the 40-50 foot range?
The Horstman etc designs seem quite dated!
Tony Grainger does some beautiful trimarans:

https://www.graingerdesigns.net/trimaran-designs/

So does Erik Lerouge:

Erik Lerouge

Not many production boats beyond Neel:

https://www.neeltrimarans.com.au/neel-45.html
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Old 18-02-2019, 03:24   #174
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoolboy View Post
Ok,
So, does anyone know of any good trimaran plans in the 40-50 foot range?
John Marples 44: Searunner Multihulls - CC 44 Tri

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Have a look at the website I built for trimarans currently for sale.

See: https://www.trimaranforsale.com/
Thanks, i'll be checking your site often.
blessings
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Old 18-02-2019, 03:38   #175
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoolboy View Post
Ok,
So, does anyone know of any good trimaran plans in the 40-50 foot range?
The Horstman etc designs seem quite dated!

Also, is putting 2 outboards in the 2 amas of a trimaran a good idea? Distributing load, spreading weight? access? (hidden appearance too perhaps)

Schoolboy
John Marples has a few good designs in this range that most everyone is familiar with. His boats are purposeful "cruising" designs which I think is important for safety and performance if your intention is to cruise offshore for extended periods.

He has designed a new boat that most everyone is not familiar with yet. I know of only one boat built to this design. She is 40 feet and hits the sweet spot in terms of numbers and performance.

I will see if I can drum up a few pictures.

S
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Old 18-02-2019, 03:54   #176
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

This is John's new CC40-FC design.........
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Old 18-02-2019, 04:12   #177
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

A few more.........
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Old 18-02-2019, 07:06   #178
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Kurt Hughes has several Tri's in his Stock designs in 38' - 45' range

Multihulldesigns.com
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Old 18-02-2019, 08:45   #179
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoolboy View Post
Ok,
So, does anyone know of any good trimaran plans in the 40-50 foot range?
The Horstman etc designs seem quite dated!

Also, is putting 2 outboards in the 2 amas of a trimaran a good idea? Distributing load, spreading weight? access? (hidden appearance too perhaps)

Schoolboy
As tp12 said have look on Erik Lerouge tris.
We have build one
and are preparing for the 10-12 meters project.
Contact us if you like.
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Old 24-02-2019, 17:17   #180
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Re: No love for trimarans - why?

Someone posted this link here on CF a while back and i have found it very helpful. Thank you to whoever has built this website!

https://www.trimaranforsale.com/2019/02/

jon
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