No DIY in the USA?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

He (catbuilder) runaway out from the Boatdesign forum and he must get the knowhow somewhere bcs he had no basic skils or knowledge building anything.. Thou the threads he started are a real treasure for somebody searhing knowlegde building foam cored hulls

I think you will find he was a moderator here at CF some time back. Must have runaway from CF as well.

[s/v 'Faith']

DIY? Not ALWAYS a good thing....

Some Say There Are No Ugly Catamarans - Page 6 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

[valhalla360]

I have to believe it's a cost issue.

We thought about building a bigger boat but after doing a dingy and looking at costs it was going to be the same price for a turn key used boat.

I suspect it's the transition from wood to fiberglass. 50yrs ago, boats that didn't get maintained would disintigrate in a few years. Now with big fiberglass boats, the hulls last pretty much forever.

Maybe the tax rules or something else pushes the Aussies to build.

[David M]

Built by the owner.....


So beautiful you would never know it is not a production boat.

People are right though, old hulls that are still structurally sound are so plentiful and inexpensive in the US that for many it makes no economic sense to build your own hull from scratch.

[Factor]

Its a little bit economics in Australia, but its a lot about getting the exact boat you want. eg 44C"s boat, wonderful strong fast comfortable live aboard, with boards and outboards, no production boat has the combination of boards and outboards new.

[niget2002]

For me, it's time. The time I would have to spend building, I would rather spend with my family. I do wood working on a regular basis, but I tend to keep it to weekend projects or things that don't take up the entire garage.

[Roy M]

When I was building WILDERNESS, back in the mid 70's, there were many boats being built in a variety of empty lots and available sites. By the time I launched, I had learned why so few of these boats ever got into the water. It's the sheer amount of work, and the unending outflow of cash. Mere mortals have no appreciation for the volume of blood, sweat and fear of not being able to complete the project. We learned early that by the time you merely finish the structural shell of the boat, you have spent two thirds of the labor, and only one third of the cash. And that was during the first Arab oil embargo, when the cost of epoxy (or polyester) resin doubled, then tripled. The ferrocement boat I shared my yard with was never finished. It sits today in the front yard of the builder's house in Los Angeles, with pots of geraniums on the deck. Two out of three couples broke up during the building process. People who can make a lot of money, and commit to significant debt, can simply write a check, put on their seaboots and cast off. For many others, it's a more immediate and powerful commitment to actually build a boat from the keel up, to learn the myriad sub-skills of all the systems aboard, then survive the launch process and go on to living aboard what may still be an incomplete vessel. If one can buy it, do so. It will be considerably easier in the long run, though you will probably never have the deep-rooted confidence that being the builder can instill. Or the ability to fix something that will eventually break or be broken by the sea, shore or fellow sailing vessels.

[delmarrey]

The biggest problems I have run across here in the USA are the PC culture and time, unless one already has the money. Then why not buy new.

Anyway, the PC'ers don't want some mass project going up in their neighbors back yard. We're zoned out! Where I live I have to have so much space between the boat and the neighbors property. Plus with all the TV and internet cables overhead I wouldn't be able to get the boat in/out.
And to rent a lot/space to do the work even remotely close to an ocean is costly. Might as well buy new.

And to be able to build, one needs money so one has to work. And if one works there's no time to build, especially if one has a spouse/family. It's better to be single. Although, a partner would be nice but trying to finding a female boat builder. It's rare as chickens teeth (egg tooth). So, might as well work extra hard and buy new.

The USA is complicated. All these rules and environment concerns. Boat yards are barely surviving due to PC pressures. The average Joe knows very little on how to control hazmat and some boat yards have enviro-Nazi's running around watching your every move. Just google boat yards and check out their rules list. Some are pages long.

Here in Everett they demolished the old boat yards and built all new paved over yards that has such tight controls that one has to walk with their cheeks squeezed together.

I was lucky with my rebuild. I found a place that was fairly graceful but still made sure tarps were down and bottom paint wasn't blown around. But I wouldn't do it again, now-a-daze. I'd buy new! Or, at least, cruise-able.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Capt.Fred

I built my 50' 23 ton fiberglass cutter yawl from scratch, working full time at UCSB in Santa Barbara, with my then girlfriend who was a student at UCSB. We happily lived in a boat yard on Gutierrez Str. We started in mid '75 and launched in Aug. '77 The Daedalus is still going strong as an Inspected charter vessel.

That's a beautiful boat. Well done! From these replies, it would seem that DIY in the USA is not healthy, but far from dead.

[CarinaPDX]

Clearly Rebel Heart hasn't looked too closely, or more likely can't tell the quality home-built boats from production. When I built Carina in the late '70s and '80s there were a lot of others doing the same. I knew of one large boat (4 staterooms) built by some Tektronix engineers that was a work of art. It happened more often than many know.

That said, most were never completed by the original owners. I have a friend who is still working (liberal use of the term) on a Cascade 42 after 25 years - it will be perfect if he ever finishes. The commitment of time and money is far greater than most realize. For just the cash I put into my 31' Cape George Cutter I could have bought a quality 39' boat and been cruising a decade sooner, and let's not even talk about 12k hours or so of labor. At the time I started the market for cruisers was high, so it appeared (wrongly) to be a lower cost option. In today's market it is obvious to all that a decent used cruiser can be had for a fraction of the cost of building one, and it is still true if less obvious that a new boat is a better financial choice.

Of course many DIY boats are built with more labor and less money, but most look like it too. Cost can be cut by using cheaper, often plastic, components and using inexpensive workarounds, but the result is usually quite obviously DIY. There is nothing wrong with that, and I have sailed on some of these, but they will never be confused with a production boat. But today the cost to build even a simple boat is greater than buying used so it is perfectly rational that home building is going the way of the dodo.

Greg

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Factor

Its a little bit economics in Australia, but its a lot about getting the exact boat you want. eg 44C"s boat, wonderful strong fast comfortable live aboard, with boards and outboards, no production boat has the combination of boards and outboards new.

That's a good point. When our friends boat was declared a financial write off by their insurance company, they looked at what was available on the used and new boat market, and found that their boat would be extremely difficult to replace.

So buying it back and repairing it became their choice.

[Boracay]

Maybe it's a difference in attitudes to money.

I get a clear impression that a very large number of Americans don't have a big nest egg to retire with despite working very hard all their lives.

It could be just me but Boracay has cost somewhat less than what I would have given in tips over the last 50 odd years if i had lived and worked in America.

In Oz it's not just boats that are DIY. It's houses too. At the moment it seems like every major TV network here is running a prime time home renovation show.

[Panope]

23 years ago I did work for a yacht builder for 2 years as an electrician. I did not consider myself a shipwright then or now.

I did not build the hull, but by my estimates the hull portion is just the tip of the iceberg.

Not quite done but still plugging away. Today's work is carpentry and painting in the pilot house (see pic).

Follow the link under my signature for the rest of the story.

Steve

[Kettlewell]

It's strange looking at the used boat market today, because there are boats that cost less in today's dollars than similar boats cost in the 1980s in that era's dollars. In other words, I can buy a lot more boat today for say $20,000 than I could buy in 1980 for $20,000, and it will come with gear that the 1980 boat would never have had: GPS, roller furling, refrigeration, etc. At the high end boats are expensive, but at the low end they are not. There is simply no way you can get as much boat building new as you can buying used. But, I still understand and admire those who are willing to do it their way--especially the ones who complete the project and take off in it. Unfortunately, those boatbuilders are in the vast minority. I bet there are 100 boatbuilding projects started for every 1 that goes sailing.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

Having worked both in Australia and the US, I think it is more about the time. Americans just spend a lot more time at work and thinking about work than Australians.

The "average" American hardly has time to scratch themselves let alone build a 40' cat in their backyard. Americans spend more time at work than citizens of any other developed nation.

Long story, but there are now 2 mooring field here in St Augustine, the main one is transient cruisers and a few local live aboards and the other is mostly smaller boats owned by those living ashore.

Everytime I take my beach cat out, I sail thru the fleet of smaller boats. I only go out on nice days, but that is pretty often here. There are almost never anyone on any of these moored boats. It's really hard to figure "modern" life out. I have friends working there asses or locally for pathetic wages, but they all still have iPhones. I try and take my $400 beach cat sailing altleast one a week except in the 2 or so months of winter only get out once or twice. Don't have a cell phone or a house phone.

Back to the thread, I'm taking 2 years "off" to build my cat as it pretty much works out dollars wise for me vs. the cost of buying and refitting a production cat. Of course will be off on a hopefully lengthy cruise when launched.

Your results may vary. I figure the world is going to be pretty screwed in 40 years so might as well take my retirement now.