New style Harryproa cruiser

[lucdekeyser]

Denney has teamed up with a Norwegian designer for a new style Harryproa cruiser. One is being built in a Peruvian boatyard. It is billed as a 60 foot cruiser but space wise it is more like a 40 foot catamaran with 10 feet extensions to each end of one hull. This is for more comfort at sea. This makes more sense than in hindsight extending the sterns of a cat to keep the wife aboard. I also like the separation of his and hers: the long skinny hull for the sails, rudders, et. al. and the short fat hull for a double bedroom/bathroom loft with a view.
I am not interested in complication to get the last percentages out of performance. So unstayed masts with just a wishbone mainsail look simple enough. I am not sure I want to use the tender hanging off the beam as a sled to motor the boat, but as a fall back that is not bad. The rudders are bidirectional now. This simplifies the design and I guess that the performance for a cruiser is not too much affected.
I guess it all depends on where one cruises but the toss up has one more set of options beside the usual: the comfort at sea of a 60 footer is important. But a real 60 footer is expensive in purchase and dock rent. This one weighs, costs and handles like a 40 footer. And the protected tender and ramp setup may make mooring a less unattractive alternative. What am I overlooking?

[44'cruisingcat]

The hull you live in is 40 foot, so I wouldn't bet on 60 foot comfort.

[lucdekeyser]

Space wise you are right. But it makes the seastate as comfortable as a 60 footer without the cost and handling of a 60 foot cat that is too much for most couples anyway.

[44'cruisingcat]

I don't think it will work quite as well as that. The 40' accommodation hull is much heavier than the 60' one, so will probably have more influence on the boat's motion.

[Mirage Gecko]

There is a Proa moored not far from me at the moment and as I drive by I often wonder what the advantages are if any.Can maybe see some over a mono.
Chris

[nimblemotors]

My understanding the advantage of a Proa was the long slender hull is more efficient in the water,
and you need just a little hull to balance it.
When you make the little hull a big fat hull, it looks to me the Proa advantage has been killed, so just make a catamaran and shorten the LOA and get back the 2/3rd of your living space that was lost.

I do like how they incorporated some of my dinghy idea though.

[44'cruisingcat]

There are advantages. Compared to a cat, they're cheap to build. They're fast. They have less room, but still pretty decent accommodation.

[RKsailsolo]

Reading the info on the website reveals a compelling story. Sea state handling is supposedly better as weight distribution is centered on the motion axis which is where the crew is. Corkscrew nervous cat motion is dissipated as the boat sails more like a monohull slicing thru waves. Actually it is more like a forty foot cat with artificial extensions. It certainly is simple and looks to be executed and maintained at less cost.

[lucdekeyser]

@nimblemotors: There are several types of proa's. This is a harryproa and it retains the advantages of the more traditional pacific proa except maybe in very light wind conditions when a cruiser would motor anyway. It is unusual as a proa in the sense that the accommodations are kept in one hull separate from the technical parts like masts, boards, rudders, batteries, gensets, fuel, watermaker, ... installed in the other hull.

I did not find the information about your dinghy setup on your web site.

The Peruvian boatyard building this HP 60 will not sneeze on a couple more copies from the same molds. They have a long time experience with building large Kelsall designs.

@44'cruisingcat The weight distribution between long and short hull is about 60/40 with the short hull providing lots of righting moment. Good sailing conditions partially lift the short hull out of the water reducing resistance. There is an inclinometer triggered automatic sheets release anti-capsize system for when a surprise squall would start to fly the short hull. The fully rotating unstayed masts should take all the drama out of those instances.

@RKsailsolo It is the simplicity that is particularly attractive. Less things, less clutter, less weight, less to break, less things to watch out for, ...

The schooner rig has several advantages like it opens up the long hull, lowers CL, makes the sails more manageable and allows steering even without rudders. OTOH, a single taller mast would be quite cheaper and lighter and if bridges are not an issue, would simplify even more.

[hblask]

Some interesting ideas on it. I'd be curious to see how it sails.

Also, I'm guessing you pay for a 60 ft slip in harbor, rather than a 40?

[lucdekeyser]

@hblask: one of its smaller sisters with easyrig

sails in Holland

Its rudders have been replaced since.
Another smaller one is

sailing in Scandinavia

It has a central ramp.

I would hope that the easy access to the dinghy would make mooring less of a burden and offset the higher costs of a slip. But that will depend on region and availability, of course.

[RKsailsolo]

Originally Posted by lucdekeyser

@nimblemotors: There are several types of proa's. This is a harryproa and it retains the advantages of the more traditional pacific proa except maybe in very light wind conditions when a cruiser would motor anyway. It is unusual as a proa in the sense that the accommodations are kept in one hull separate from the technical parts like masts, boards, rudders, batteries, gensets, fuel, watermaker, ... installed in the other hull.



I did not find the information about your dinghy setup on your web site.



The Peruvian boatyard building this HP 60 will not sneeze on a couple more copies from the same molds. They have a long time experience with building large Kelsall designs.



@44'cruisingcat The weight distribution between long and short hull is about 60/40 with the short hull providing lots of righting moment. Good sailing conditions partially lift the short hull out of the water reducing resistance. There is an inclinometer triggered automatic sheets release anti-capsize system for when a surprise squall would start to fly the short hull. The fully rotating unstayed masts should take all the drama out of those instances.



@RKsailsolo It is the simplicity that is particularly attractive. Less things, less clutter, less weight, less to break, less things to watch out for, ...



The schooner rig has several advantages like it opens up the long hull, lowers CL, makes the sails more manageable and allows steering even without rudders. OTOH, a single taller mast would be quite cheaper and lighter and if bridges are not an issue, would simplify even more.

Luc, are you involved with the designer or builder? Just curious about context as it helps me better understand the value of what we are dealing with here. Fascinating design potential.

Thanks

[downunder]

Originally Posted by RKsailsolo

Luc, are you involved with the designer or builder? Just curious about context as it helps me better understand the value of what we are dealing with here. Fascinating design potential.

Thanks

Visited the Ballotta yard a couple of years ago. I have no concerns with their ability to work with composites and would be happy to use them. Very good workmanship.

The Kelsall 16m Proa can't be far from completition now. Will be interesting to see how it performs.

[lucdekeyser]

I am involved as a potential customer. Since a sail on the Blind Date I was pretty convinced of the concept. Now "we" needed to be convinced. Only a larger size like this one would have a chance. So, the his and hers hulls would work better for us. I don't have to explain that this "pole" in the middle of the saloon is there for a reason or that the board under the table cannot be shoved aside when uncle big John comes for dinner. I only know the Peruvian boatyard from the web site since it was announced to be the builder of this cruiser. Would its expected low cost offset the security of a Dutch boatyard close by? I am told it is a very easy built.

But the collective experience of this forum is important as reality check. I wonder if there is a cruiser's wife forum to get a different perspective of that reality ;-)

[downunder]

It would be a good time to visit the boatyard now with the vessels in construction if you are serious.

If I was to build there I would rent a place for the last couple of months of the build.

The cost of the Kelsall proa should give a good comparative costing as the harryproa should be lower cost. Labour cost is the real advantage of a build there.

Giorgio Ballotta will essentially give you a custom fitout. They are very experienced with flat panel infusion.

I think you need to build in shade from the start rather than as an afterthought and Kelsalls solution looks ideal. Particularly as you will be cruising in the tropics. its an afterthought on the Harryproa's built so far.

I didn't follow your pole comment but if its a pole for pole dancing. Essential on a vesssel that size.