New Seawind Model - Announcement July 10

[yoyofella]

As the saying goes, everything on a boat is a trade-off. In the case of 1370, the need to maintain clear light of sight to all saloon window does limit the type of storage available for the galley up design. In the Seawind specification, they do give indications on the storage available in the galley / saloon:
- Under Bench storage with timber door fronts % cutlery drawers
- inboard side of galley: over-bench cupboard with sliding door fronts
- Cocktail cabinet/storage under day lounge
- Freezer is located next to the nav desk, according to the interview with Seabbaticals (available on youtube)

What's clearly missing is a pantry to store food. So far, Seawind has not posted any rendering of the port hull, but I suspect that's where it's going to be located.

Compare to the 1260, below are the extra storage available on the 1370:
- deep bow locker on the port hull (n/a for 1260)
- floor-to-ceiling closet on the master's suit on port hull (reach-in on 1260)
- 2 wet deep wet locker in front of the mast (only 1 for the 1260)
- extra v-berth on port hull that can be use as bed/storage (space is used for head on 1260)
- engine compartment looks potentially bigger as well, but not confirmed.
- larger nav desk should allow for some storage (versus a nook for 1260)

At least for me, this increase in storage space resolved my concern on the 1260.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Galley down probably means the toilet in that hull is in the front like in the 1160/1260. Which is not great for charter market. I dont think galley down in a 45 footer could have been justified to the masses. Everything is a compromise.

Seawinds have never been built for the charter market, although some are in charter.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Im looking forward to the ruby rose crew showing us where the touted extra storage is on the 1370. At the moment the only way i can see it having more practical storage than the 1260 is if they turned the guest head into a giant walk in pantry/garage.

As designed they have a hull that serve no practical purpose for them on a daily basis. Although would be great as a Patreon/ air bnb accomodation.

We didn't opt for the head in the starboard hull. Most of the time, its just two of us onboard. When we've had guests, we haven't found the one large head with separate shower to be a problem. Plus when we are sailing, its the most readily accessible. As such, we have a huge bow compartment on starboard to put folding bikes, sails, food bins, beer, etc. Which for us is better use than a second head that gets used 10% of the time.

[Alistair242]

There appears to be considerably more storage in the 1370. There is the walk in closet in the owners cabin, the accessible storage in the forward bows and the fact that both hulls are much wider right through than the 11/1260, not to mention considerably more cockpit and deck space with storage. It’s a lot more boat as one would expect with a price tag to match. However, both the galley and the salon look to be smaller and there are the same number of bunks as the smaller boats, only larger in the aft cabins. The galley and salon areas in the smaller Seawinds are ingenious and massive for boats that size.
Galley up in cats under 45ft compromise space but are great for charter boats as it enables you to have 4 cabins and generally people are onboard for short periods. As a live aboard on these you can convert one or more cabins into storage/workshop/laundry type spaces.
The 1370 should be able to carry the galley up well and be a good option as a 4 cabin charter boat and as live aboard vessel in the owner configuration.
It’s really a move by Seawind towards more conventional production cats and one would think that they will capture a good portion of that market.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Alistair242

There appears to be considerably more storage in the 1370. There is the walk in closet in the owners cabin, the accessible storage in the forward bows and the fact that both hulls are much wider right through than the 11/1260, not to mention considerably more cockpit and deck space with storage. It’s a lot more boat as one would expect with a price tag to match. However, both the galley and the salon look to be smaller and there are the same number of bunks as the smaller boats, only larger in the aft cabins. The galley and salon areas in the smaller Seawinds are ingenious and massive for boats that size.
Galley up in cats under 45ft compromise space but are great for charter boats as it enables you to have 4 cabins and generally people are onboard for short periods. As a live aboard on these you can convert one or more cabins into storage/workshop/laundry type spaces.
The 1370 should be able to carry the galley up well and be a good option as a 4 cabin charter boat and as live aboard vessel in the owner configuration.
It’s really a move by Seawind towards more conventional production cats and one would think that they will capture a good portion of that market.

Yes, the forward hanging locker is much bigger and there is now a huge externally accessed sail locker/crash bulkhead on the port side like the outremers, my guess is the starboard bow single bunk has a crash bulkhead underneath which Shane Grover referred to as the 'horizontal crash bulkhead' this leads me to believe that area cannot be totally converted to a walk-in room like the 1160, the base for the bed will need to stay in place, so the space will be raised like a tatami room. Unless of course you are willing to get rid of the horizontal crash bulkhead. But these spaces are at the very tip of the bows so you would not want your rice/flour/cans/beers to be stored there. I would only use those spaces for fenders and light items. There is definitely the ability to carry more on the 1370 but i hope they are carefully throught out usable spaces. The boat is not built yet so we don't know, but looking at the plans and rendering they are not obvious.

Your other observations are spot on. Seawind is definitely eyes the masses with this boat. There is a 4 heads version for goodness sake.

Do you guys think the area circled in red will have a seal compartment underneath to act as a horizontal crash bulkhead?

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

We didn't opt for the head in the starboard hull. Most of the time, its just two of us onboard. When we've had guests, we haven't found the one large head with separate shower to be a problem. Plus when we are sailing, its the most readily accessible. As such, we have a huge bow compartment on starboard to put folding bikes, sails, food bins, beer, etc. Which for us is better use than a second head that gets used 10% of the time.

That would be the ideal configuration, not to mention not opting for the head means you can buy a nice carbon OCtender with the money saved. Many serious cruising boats like the ovnis and boreal are configured with just one head. Many older homes only have one bathroom, I think we can survive with just one on a sailboat. Not so much with the 1370 but on the 1160 having one head means the entire starboard hull is completely seacock free! One less thing to worry about. You could always put a nature head in there later as a backup.

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Seawinds have never been built for the charter market, although some are in charter.

I'm glad the general design of the 1370 has not been compromised by charter demands but they are definitely not against it, seeing there is a 4 heads version! My guess is the 1260 is a bit too small and the 1600 is too expensive. The 1370 is the Goldilocks boat. Seawind 1160/1260 are very popular with the charter market in Australia.

[sailjumanji]

Our 1160 Lite has the thru hull for the air con under the floor of the aft port quarters. There is a cutout in the floor. On starboard, we also have dedicated intake for head, another for watermaker, an a thru hull for dump overboard. They are all Marelon.

[Yihang]

If one was to choose a freshwater head using the sink water method you can get rid of the saltwater intake which means the only thru hull would be the dump overboard and depth sounder. On the seawind it would be quite easy to make a sea-chest for the dump overboard as it is just a straight down hose. The depth sounder could be placed in the watertight bulkhead. This means there are no failure points below the waterline. Of course 99.9 percent of the time marelon thruhulls will be fine but I think peace ofmind is worth some effort. EDIT: Not a sea-chest, just a watertight box extending above the waterline. Sea-chest is filled with water....

I believe Amels atleast use to have a type of seachest for some of their thruhulls and Boreals always have standpipes above the waterline for all their thru hulls.

[sailjumanji]

I'm ok with the stock setup. I've never had an issue with Marelon valves. I could easily re-engineer everything, but why? The thru hulls not being used at the moment - like the air con and watermaker - are closed valve. Dump valve stays closed. So that leaves toilet intake. Im aware i can re-engineer, but dont see a reason.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by yoyofella

What's clearly missing is a pantry to store food. So far, Seawind has not posted any rendering of the port hull, but I suspect that's where it's going to be located.

I have no doubt the 1370 will have more storage volume. There is going to be more places to put more stuff. The only question is how efficiently this space will be used. I suppose been an architect, it is in my nature to crit plans. I can see why they did a lot of what they did, but I think a walk-in pantry can be easily incorporated into the 3 heads version by taking out one of the heads. The same molding can be used, you just leave out the head fixtures and put in some shelves. Having a centralized pantry next to the freezer and galley is probably a good idea.

There also seem to be a huge storage locker on the master cabin side which will nicely balance out the weight in the walk in pantry, you could have a heavy duty slide-out bottom drawer for heavy spares.

[CaptainMarkS]

Originally Posted by yoyofella

I've been lurking on the forum for a few years, but finally decided to join so I can add a little bit to this discussion. My wife and I are future 1370 owners (hull number in the low 20s). We really liked the 1260, but decided not to go for it due to lack of storage. We ultimately chose the Seawind 1370 after closely considering Balance 442. Below are some of the research I did comparing the Balance 442 and Seawind 1370 that lead to our decision.

My background and goals: Learned how to sail on San Francisco Bay on dinghys and 25' keelboats. I've also crewed on 30~40' boats in races. I enjoy going fast and am not afraid of getting wet. Most recently, I crewed on a Privilege 39 catamaran for a 17 day, 1500 nautical mile upwind passage from Mexico to San Francisco to get some first hand experience on the bigger cats. My wife has been mostly crewing, but is now learning through the ASA program. Our goal is to start cruising full time when we get the boat.


Seawind 1370 vs. Balance 442 comparison
====

Helms:
After doing many night watches during my upwind passage on the Privilege 39, I've ruled out any boat with an outboard helm knowing that either my wife or I will occasionally need to be there at night. We went to Annapolis last year and got to sail on the Seawind 1260, so we have first-hand experience on the twin helms and really enjoyed liked it. While I never sailed the Balance 526, I did get to check out the Versa helm at the boat show. Comparing the Seawind and Balance, both helms are equally well protected. Balance has a better visibility but Seawind's twin helm makes docking much easier. As we'll be mostly sailing double-handed, an offset sports helm like the Balance will remove one of us from being able to handle lines, it'll also make docking to port side slightly harder. This really should be a wash between the 2 boats, but our personal preference is to the Seawind's twin helm. I encourage everyone to charter a 1160 or 1260 just to get a first hand feel for it.

Sailing performance:
I think only Seawind has published the polar, while Balance has not. With a dagger-board, Balance 442 should outpoint the Seawind 1370 and perform better going upwind. However, Seawind is slightly longer and narrower and has 5% bigger main and 19% larger Jib, so may do better off the wind. Ultimately, I decided that I'll spend less than 5% of the boat's life sailing far above a beam reach. Dagger-board or not, bashing upwind in close haul is pretty terrible on a catamaran (learned this the hard way) and should be avoided if at all possible. This is a wash between the Balance 442 and Seawind 1370, but both boats are going to be above average compare to the other mid-40 cats.

Power management:
We already decided we don't want a generator, so power generation and management is very important for us. Balance is offering a super-sized 8kW alternator from Integrel Solution, while Seawind has the 200A alternator, or about 1/3 the size. This should be a big plus for Balance. My main concern is that Integrel Solution is just too new and reliability and serviceability may be suspect. In addition, Seawind's solution seems to be a fully integrated solution where everything from alternator, charger, battery will all be from Mastervolt. Most importantly, Seawind has a factory option for 2kW of solar on the bimini top, while Balance came nowhere near that. This is likely due to Balance having a smaller bimini as well as using up some of the hard top area for the raised helm as well as for the lines for running rigging. huge advantage to Seawind 1370.

Layout:
Balance has more cockpit seating option since it has just the versahelm. Based on the schematic it also looks bigger. Saloon design is very similar for both boats in both the galley, nav desk, and sitting area. Balance probably has more galley storage since the fridge/freezer are placed away. I really like the inside/outside engine bay access of the Seawind as well as the workshop in the starboard hull, this is probably where the Ruby Rose input really shines. However, I remember the Balance 526 had amazing serviceability of all major components. This is probably a wash.

Build quality:
Difficult to say, since both only exist on paper. Balance 526 was pretty amazing so I assume the 442 will probably be better.

Price:
Seawind's starting price is lower and comes with a significantly larger engine (40HP for Seawind vs. 30HP for Balance), but Americans have to pay the import Tariff for Vietnam but not for South African builds. Options pricing seems similar. I think the final fully kitted out price will be very similar.


As of today, both seems to stand out compared to the other 45' cat for the balance between performance and comfort. Ultimately, we decided to go with Seawind 1370 over Balance 442. We really loved the dual helm layout and the amazing amount of solar panels that can be fitted on the 1370. With 2kW of solar and a large Lithium bank, we feel comfortable that we can get all the power to cruise comfortably without having a generator. 1370 even has a build in rain catchment system which can further improve the off-grid ability.

There are two important intangibles that I am also considering:
1) Seawind is a well established builder with decades of experience while Balance is really still a semi-custom builder, so the after sales support may be stronger for Seawind.
2) With Ruby Rose involvement and the large social media attention this will get, this could become a very important benefit for Seawind owners. Not only do we get to watch the boat being built and sailed before owning, I suspect large owner base will also also have a chance to organize into a community to share their tips and issues with each other.

That's a fantastic summary, yoyofella! I've been pricing out and reviewing pros and cons of the Balance and Seawind myself. One big sway factor for me is that, if I made the deposit now on a 1370 with hull #41, I'm looking at March 2025 delivery. A lot can happen between now and then! Even with increased production capacity, I'd guess they could shave a year, max two off? Still... a long wait! It would be a slam dunk if this weren't the case.

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by Mark Selawry

That's a fantastic summary, yoyofella! I've been pricing out and reviewing pros and cons of the Balance and Seawind myself. One big sway factor for me is that, if I made the deposit now on a 1370 with hull #41, I'm looking at March 2025 delivery. A lot can happen between now and then! Even with increased production capacity, I'd guess they could shave a year, max two off? Still... a long wait! It would be a slam dunk if this weren't the case.

Was a nice write up!

In speaking with a dealer regarding my complaint on long lead times and why no expansion, the dealer said, 'the owners are NOT going to do a major expansion. They have seen how other builders who have done this have cratered and are no longer here. They would rather lose sales to people like you but still be around in 10 years at the same size they are now.' Don't know how accurate that is. I said I like the boat a lot, but I also like sailing a lot and I if I would be 90% happy on their boat in 2024, I would be 0% happy in 21/22/23. But I could have a boat from France in a few months, which would solve that un happiness mostly.

Their choice. I think they have much better boats than the Lagoon/Leapord/FP guys. But those guys will steal some of their ideas. Look at Lagoon with the Bene/Ex new cats that are supposed to be more performance. I think while they missed the boat on round 1, they will iterate and improve them on round 2. You should be able to manage how to upscale and downscale somewhat if you are interested in growth. Maybe they aren't and are happy to be what they are.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by yoyofella

Seawind's starting price is lower and comes with a significantly larger engine (40HP for Seawind vs. 30HP for Balance), but Americans have to pay the import Tariff for Vietnam but not for South African builds.

Of course duty and import fees are totally dependent upon the rules of the import country, but we paid a total of $5,871 for CBP duty, processing, harbor and all other fees. For valuation, they use the invoice ex Vietnam - which is before shipping is added in - plus also some adjustment downward occurred (for reason unknown). Our ex-factory invoice was a $376,737 - so effectively the duty/import was 1.56%.

We also paid an import/export broker to handle all of the paperwork, clearance at the dock, etc., for $275. Which was well worth it.

To me, given the price of the boat, this is all relatively cheap.

Originally Posted by yoyofella

With Ruby Rose involvement and the large social media attention this will get, this could become a very important benefit for Seawind owners. Not only do we get to watch the boat being built and sailed before owning, I suspect large owner base will also also have a chance to organize into a community to share their tips and issues with each other.

There is already a large, organized owner base sharing tips. For Seawind owners only, there is an Official Seawind Owners Club on Facebook, that is also monitored and has participation by the factory. It has a very active owner base, with lots of great idea sharing, improvements, plus also addressing any issues. Owners who have done circumnavigation, ocean and buoy races, and just day sailing and cruising. In addition to just owner organization, I suspect Seawind gets a lot of great feedback to incorporate into future builds. The 1160 Lite, with the twin outboards, fewer options in the base model, no generator, more solar, etc., was in direct response to Seawind 1000 owners who wanted a larger boat, but didn't want diesels, etc. I know on the 1160 alone over the past few years, expanding the hard top, the wider saloon seating, the stainless cap on the saloon floor stepover, synthetic wheels standard, dedicated storage slots for the removable windows - were all ideas that were advanced by owner feedback.

There is at least one 1160 owner that has a deposit on a 1370. The majority of the active owner base is in Australia, which is probably because that is where Seawind started. However, the east coast USA numbers are growing quickly.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Has anyone noticed there doesn't seem to be much storage space in the galley of the 1370. The only cupboard space appears to be on the left side of the stove. The galley down configuration of the 1160 have at least twice as much storage space with overhead cupboards and the full height pantry, plus atleast 50% more bench space. Food storage being such an important factor in long distance cruising I wonder how Ruby Rose will deal with the issue. Not to mention there is no obvious place for a microwave and the hatch above the stove is gone.

If Seawind updates the 1260 with the new design but keep the galley down configuration it would be a killer.

Because they have to leave it as open as possible - as your forced to sail looking THROUGH the cabin from the helm. Or hang out the side. Or run side to side... OR... hang off the tail while looking down the side (oh wait, that’s Nautitech!)

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Because they have to leave it as open as possible - as your forced to sail looking THROUGH the cabin from the helm. Or hang out the side. Or run side to side... OR... hang off the tail while looking down the side (oh wait, that’s Nautitech!)

This looking thru the forward opening windows is often repeated as an issue except you NEVER hear it from a Seawind owner. The window immediately in front of the helm is removable, and that's how we sail, even in rain. It goes in when the air con is turned on. The front windows are usually open when sailing. Go to a boat show, look thru, and you will see its not an issue.

I have never heard a Seawind owner say wish I could steer while sitting on the top of a hard top. Or that i really wish the boom was so far off the deck to make the mainsail undersized. Yeah, at anchor that hard top patio is really neat. But realize Seawinds are made for sailors, and nothing about that upstairs patio says sail perfomance.

Yeah, and when we race the boat, you sit on the coamjng and look around the hardtop to see the telltales, and steer to them.