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Old 09-09-2020, 05:57   #1
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New Seawind 1270?

Seems like seawind had a different 1260 design back in 2015. This looks like a 41ft version of the new 1370.

Anyone remember why they chose to go with the current 1260 design instead of this?

With the success of the 1370 I wonder if they will bring this back to the drawing board.

https://seawindcats.com/community/ne...-seawind-1260/

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Old 09-09-2020, 06:32   #2
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Let's see, the Seawind 1260 won Cruising World's 2019 award for "Best Cruising Catamaran under 50ft" and also the Cruising World award for "Boat of the Year." Its only be out for a couple of years. I think sales are still strong, so I don't see them "going back to the drawing board" on this model anytime soon. Plus, looks to me that the only significant difference is the plumb bow. The artist rendering looks a bit short and stubby vs the actual boat.
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Old 09-09-2020, 19:54   #3
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

According to that article they were 6 months away from launching this particular 1260. So, one can argue a significant portion of the design has been done already. I was just wondering if anyone on the forum heard any explanation from seawind when they eventually launched the current 1260 which is obviously just a minor tweak of the 1250 instead of this 'all new design'.

Apart from the bows it looks like the mast was moved back into the coach roof and the decks on the hulls are a lot flatter. Seawind also mentions increased interior volume.

I'm not knocking the current 1260 in anyway. Still an excellent boat, but they obviously had other ideas before they launched it. It almost seems like they transferred the ideas for this unreleased 1260 into the 1370. Which does make a lot of sense since they were missing a 45 feet boat. By releasing the new design language in the new 1370 they are giving it a lot more buzz then if it was just a scaled up version of this unreleased 1260.


What seawind said about this unreleased 1260 sounds a lot like what they said about the 1370.

"Seawind Catamarans is excited to announce a new catamaran design, the Seawind 1260. This new lively cruising catamaran will be making its debut mid 2016. The Australian owned catamaran company has put years of experience and customer feedback into this design and will once again be producing a revolutionary model with real sailors in mind, this design is bound to please the catamaran sailor with true cruising ambitions.

She will be true to Seawind’s core values, offering well rounded performance, comfort and blue-water capabilities but will be much larger in terms of interior volume than her predecessors. Unlike other catamarans with increased internal volume the 1260 will maintain the familiar streamlined under water profile the range is so well renowned for. Following the companies seven principals for the perfect cruiser this new catamaran design will provide all the features and comforts one would desire on any ocean crossing, like all Seawind cats the 1260 is a truly robust design. Read More"
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Old 19-09-2020, 01:52   #4
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Maybe they concluded that it was better business to launch a bigger model and keep the existing 1260. The trend is that boats are getting bigger
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Old 19-09-2020, 20:58   #5
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

My guess is they might have a new 1260 and 1160 80% done but as long as they get a certain amount of 1160/1260 order every year there is no incentive to retool and start a new assembly. But if the market eventually decides a new model is needed then they can get up to speed pretty quickly.

The phenomenal interest generated by the 1370 is likely forward this timeline. If I were buying a new seawind 1260/1160 today I would have a serious conversation with seawind about their timeline for new models.

Unless of course seawind has no interest in continuing the development of the 38' and 40' lines. That is a possibility if the savings are only marginal over the 1370. If a 1270 was 550k base it would be a hard sell over the 1370. In that case we might see something like a 1370 'lite' when the design costs have been recuperated and the assembly line become more efficient.
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Old 19-09-2020, 23:59   #6
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

They just released the 1260, so the only one that might be changed to the 1370 would be the 1160, which is the oldest. It was last changed in 2013 I think.
And to my knowledge both, 1160 and 1260 both sell well, even after the presentation of the 1370.
And it's a diffence if you have to pay 370k for a sail away 1160 lite or 700k for 1370.
A sail away 1260 is still 200k less then the 1370, so I don't think they will stop producing those...
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Old 20-09-2020, 00:46   #7
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Seawind has a great product stack with inbuilt flexibility. Richard Ward shoudl really be proud of what he has done.

Without too much effort seawind could put a mini keel on the 1190 and call it a 1190 cruise. The model would be a great replacement for the 1160. Retractable rudders for easy maintenance and updated rear quarters with the boarding platform.
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Old 20-09-2020, 09:10   #8
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yihang View Post
Seawind has a great product stack with inbuilt flexibility. Richard Ward shoudl really be proud of what he has done.

Without too much effort seawind could put a mini keel on the 1190 and call it a 1190 cruise. The model would be a great replacement for the 1160. Retractable rudders for easy maintenance and updated rear quarters with the boarding platform.
I think that would require a second hull mold (flat attachment for a keel, vs round bottom for a daggerboard), galley fit out (no daggerboard trunk), and do a lot of design work and testing to assure you don't introduce COE issues with the change to a keel. All to yield a boat which at anchor would be identical to the 1160?

How is a retractable rudder and associated steering system any easier maintenance than an underhung rudder? It's certainly more complicated, plus the boards are not light, and are bulky to remove. I do agree that the rear cutout makes it easier to board the 1190. Note they had to add that as it's impossible to board directly from the rear as the rudder system is blocking access.

Finally, realize the 1160 is Seawind's entry level boat. You jump up $80k base, to get into the 1190. And from what I hear - although the 1370 is all the buzz - sales on the three shorter models are all still very strong.
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Old 20-09-2020, 20:25   #9
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

I just want to reiterate I think the 1160 is a great boat and a classic in the annals of multihull history. You made a great choice and I envy you. Nothing like being out there on the water. If a new seawind 41 footer came out I would be on the hunt for a well taken care off 1250 for half the price.


Having said that I respectfully disagree with some of your assessments.

Aesthetics is personal but the sleeker rear transom on the 1190/1260 are a noticeable improvement over the older designs. Since seawind has introduced them on both new cats, I would guess they seem to like them as well. I have not seen a seawind 1160 and 1190 side by side but I would not call them identical unless you are viewing them head on. Hull molding will need to be made but I think a lot of the interior molding can be shared with the 1160. COE calculations will need to be updated, but that is as much a rigging design issue as a keel one. I'm sure seawind can come up with something that works quite easily.

I don't know if you have watched the 1190 videos but it looks like they are easily lifted by one person. At least from my understanding the benefits of an transom hang high aspect rudder are numerous:

1. No marine growth, no antifoul needed.
2. Better performance with a no compromise design- it doesn't need to be robust enough for a grounding or drying out.
3. If the rudder hits something it will not compromise the water tight integrity of the hull. Can be design to lift up or break off.
4. If fishing line gets caught on the rudder you just lifted up instead of having to dive.
5. In event of a grounding it's one less thing to worry about.
6. Along with the outboards you have eliminated two of the most common failure points on a boat. The rudder post and sail drive.

The $389,000 price tag is for the sports version of the 1190. There is a cheaper standard version available with smaller rig and less carbon, seem to recall it being around 350,000 but cannot find the link at the moment. A fix keel might also be a little cheaper than a dagger board. Seawind also talks about the extended hull shape giving better laminar flow and decreased hobby horsing in the video, that's debatable, but if true is probably worth the extra money.

I do agree a 350k 1190 with a fixed keel will never happen unless they retire the 1160. Personally I think that would be an improvement over the 1160 but that's just my opinion.
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Old 20-09-2020, 21:56   #10
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

As you pointed out, aesthetics are personal taste. However, from a practical standpoint - and I have been on all three boats - that "hump" carried further back on the 1190 and 1260 make them more difficult to board from a fixed dock. Seawind just recently started offering an opening doorway on the 1260 to make it easier to board in that situation, especially beneficial for charter operations. I don't think it is available on the 1190.

Again, aside from the stern cutout - "at anchor" - the two boats are almost identical. The saloon, cockpit, heads, galley (except for being bisected by the daggerboard trunk) - all the same. The laminar flow improvement comes from having another foot of LOA, and the way the stern exits the water when sailing, but has the same static LWL as the 1160. Hobby horsing - that was an issue on the 1000, not on the 1160, in my experience (we've owned both). That said, the 1190 is also a lighter boat than the 1160 - with all of the carbon bits, no bow pulpits, no stern pulpits, a shower curtain instead of glass shower enclosure, has synthetic rigging, etc. It's a race model, and they reduced weight everywhere possible. Most cruisers are going to want many of those things.

Frankly, I would like to see them just change the stern on the 1160 with the addition of a cutout. I suspect eventually the reverse bow is going to be incorporated on all of the boats. Both of those would be relatively cheap, and still retain their entry level boat. Oh, and while I am sure you can get a $310k base price boat, add some options for cruising and comfort, and the 1160 is quickly a $375k boat. Deliver to US, and commission, and you are at $415k. So it is already an expensive entry level boat. It was only five years ago that Seawind dropped their 1000XL from the line-up, which was a cheaper model. I would just be real concerned about dropping the 1160 for a 1190 keel version, and another $40k added to the entry level.

But it's just an opinion. I have no official insight. Albeit we have owned two Corsair trimarans, and now are on our second Seawind cat.
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Old 20-09-2020, 22:14   #11
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Good points. In any case seawind seem to be on a roll these days so I look forward to whatever they come up with in the future. I hope something in the lineup will have outboards with lift up rudders and a fix keel, to me that seems to be the most trouble free cruising configuration with the benefits I mentioned above.

Since you had the corsairs, did you like the lift up rudders? what do you think would be the disadvantages on a cruising boat?
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Old 20-09-2020, 22:18   #12
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Struggling to understand why you would want the extra expense of dagger Rudders if you have minikeels? Balanced Spade rudders are strong simple and cheap to build. Also the dagger rudders mean a less accessible and useable swim ladder.
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Old 20-09-2020, 22:27   #13
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yihang View Post
Good points. In any case seawind seem to be on a roll these days so I look forward to whatever they come up with in the future. I hope something in the lineup will have outboards with lift up rudders and a fix keel, to me that seems to be the most trouble free cruising configuration with the benefits I mentioned above.

Since you had the corsairs, did you like the lift up rudders? what do you think would be the disadvantages on a cruising boat?
I did, but they were relatively small compared to the Seawind rudders. They pivoted, and floated. Were easy to leave up. The Corsair rudders also released if they hit something. I don't think the Seawind rudders do that.

The two people I know that own 1190's, remove the rudders when they are at the dock. They store them in bags, and they are bulky to handle. I don't know why they do that - I guess so they don't have to antifoul them.
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Old 20-09-2020, 22:28   #14
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

Factor,

Seawind has incorporated a slot for a rod style boarding ladder so that's not an issue. Whether the cost is worth it is obviously up to the individual but we are talking a few percentage over the total cost of the boat, given the entire 1190(non sport) is around 10% more than the 1160.

I've listed out the benefits of having a lifting rudder in the previous post. The guy from seawind talks about how one owner hit something with his rudders and it acted as an axe and cut a large hole in the transom. The watertight bulkheads saved the boat. If it was a lifting rudder it would just be replacing the rudder and the housing, maybe not even the housing if it was designed to fail at a pin or something else.

Obviously for most people they are not hitting things everyday with the boat but if the design can be incorprated without any other major drawbacks other than cost then i think it's a good step forard.
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Old 20-09-2020, 22:56   #15
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Re: New Seawind 1270?

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Factor,

Seawind has incorporated a slot for a rod style boarding ladder so that's not an issue.
Have you seen it? The 1160 has a folding ladder in the stern compartment. You can even deploy it from the water. The 1190 ladder is probably best referred to as a pipe style. It's stout, and it works. But is also bulky and has to be removed and stored, someplace. I think that is what Factor is referring to (i.e., less accessible, and not as easy to use).
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