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Old 18-09-2019, 09:37   #106
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

You're right and your opinion counts here just like anyone else.


So on this boat I'm inclined to agree with you. For long distance cruisers the helm position will be an issue. It is exposed and only really makes sense for those that really want to take the wheel and drive the boat fast. But how may would or will? This is no Gunboat. It's not a performance cat in that vein and I just don't see many people using it that way. If it's market is the cruiser then make it so it does everything great for cruisers.



I do like the storage. Not sure about the main salon - distinct lack of opening windows for ventilation in hot places.



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Originally Posted by boom23 View Post
I thought this was a public forum and people could speak their minds?...

But, you're right. I have no interest in this boat and I am moving along.

Have a great day!
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Old 18-09-2019, 09:53   #107
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Think you're out of line here - His opinion counts just like anyone else on this site. Boom has cruised oceans extensively on a cat so his opinion is based on a lot of hands-on experience. He can provide valuable input which is what this site is about.





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Originally Posted by ausnp84 View Post
So why comment then if you donít care about it? The specs are on the website, any boat can be a cruiser, and Bavaria have proven those helm positions work well.

If you donít like it, just move along.....

N
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Old 18-09-2019, 10:07   #108
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Originally Posted by kevinof View Post
Think you're out of line here - His opinion counts just like anyone else on this site. Boom has cruised oceans extensively on a cat so his opinion is based on a lot of hands-on experience. He can provide valuable input which is what this site is about.
I agree, We are discussing a new Cat and not just for those who find it appealing. I appreciate Boom23's input and opinions. I think maybe ausnp84 is being sensitive to an opposing veiwpoint!

Its a sad day when we are not allowed to comment unless we agree with someone or only find things appealing. I think Boom23 is owed an apology!

I personally like a few minor things about this new offering, but for the most part I don't care for it. In terms of Bluewater cruising boat to live on its a definite No-Go for me. I can't stand the helm stations, the optional convertable roof over the back is not appealing in any way. No Nav station, cooktop right next to the opening for the stairs, sink in the corner.
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Old 18-09-2019, 10:19   #109
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

kevinof and Steve_C,

Thank you for the support. I am not upset in any way. It seems that ausnp84 likes the boat and did not appreciate me saying negative things about it. I can undestand that. No hard feelings. Life is too short...
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Old 18-09-2019, 10:44   #110
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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kevinof and Steve_C,

Thank you for the support. I am not upset in any way. It seems that ausnp84 likes the boat and did not appreciate me saying negative things about it. I can understand that. No hard feelings. Life is too short...
Glad to hear! However my reply was not just to support you, but I feel like we need to make sure we promote an environment that doesn't discourage anyone from posting an opinion. We all need to learn to be more tolerant these days!

Fair Winds
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Old 18-09-2019, 11:05   #111
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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I really do not care about this Cat...

I do not know what is the target audience.
Cruisers who do not really cruise?
Racers who do not really race?

Could it have less bridgedeck clearance? It will be miserable in heavy weather.
The helm positions will be horrible in rough/rainy weather or when close to other boats.

It looks like a dressed up (in a somewhat sporty way) Lagoon. In my mind, without knowing the specs or pricing, it should be priced less than the equivalent Lagoon. Unless, the construction is so much better than the Lagoon, which I doubt.

But, knowing Beneteau, it will sell at least in the charter market.
I'd rather have a well-built Searunner or a Wharram. Or even a monohull. You can get a rather nice mono for $150,000.
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Old 18-09-2019, 12:28   #112
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Originally Posted by Steve_C View Post
I agree, We are discussing a new Cat and not just for those who find it appealing. I appreciate Boom23's input and opinions. I think maybe ausnp84 is being sensitive to an opposing veiwpoint!

Its a sad day when we are not allowed to comment unless we agree with someone or only find things appealing. I think Boom23 is owed an apology!

I personally like a few minor things about this new offering, but for the most part I don't care for it. In terms of Bluewater cruising boat to live on its a definite No-Go for me. I can't stand the helm stations, the optional convertable roof over the back is not appealing in any way. No Nav station, cooktop right next to the opening for the stairs, sink in the corner.
An apology? Youíre kidding, right?

Opening a post with ďI really donít care about this catĒ surely then doesnít warrant further comment? If you donít care about it, great! Enough said. Now, the rest of the points may or may not be relevant, but all have overly negative overtones (miserable in heavy weather, horrible helm, dressed up Lagoon, doubtful construction) which, when the boat hasnít even had a test sail by the general public, are all assumptions - possibly loosely based on similar experience - but still assumptions.

Personally Iím not fussed either way about the Xcess range (although you clearly think Iím being highly defensive of it) - I do however like a number of features it employs (of which many are shared by a number of production manufacturers).

So your apology? Iím sorry you donít care about what could be a very good cat, and Iím sorry you feel being overly negative based on assumption is a good way forward.

N
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Old 18-09-2019, 12:45   #113
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

A production cat which makes standard many usually optional features is interesting indeed, and these helm don't look any worse than the ones on a mono hull so maybe some people find them unbearable but maybe they shouldn't go on the water also. There certainly is a market for less plush, more spartan boats (catamarans though? Time will tell)

I'm happy too see people jump in armor to defend the massively endangered freedom of speech on the forum, and value the opinion of people who have no opinion as they don't care
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Old 18-09-2019, 13:06   #114
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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There certainly is a market for less plush, more spartan boats (catamarans though? Time will tell)
Thatíd be nice... although it seems when manufacturers think spartan, they also think massively high performance, lots of carbon and expensive bits, and the price just goes through the roof!

I was really hoping the Xcess would be a bit of a young personís stripped out simple performance cruiser, but instead they seem to have gone for a slightly sportier Lagoon. Again, just an assumption and it might sail like a witch, but the specs and walkthrough vid certainly give a certain initial image...

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Old 18-09-2019, 16:44   #115
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

What is all the angst about the helm position? Itís a very minor point and surely Catana and Nautitech would have changed theirsí if they felt they lost customers. Notwithstanding uniformed commentary from the Ruby Rose folks during their recent cat review series and the desire of the Wynns to sail fully enclosed all the time - surely those arenít common views among longer term cruisers?

Whether outboard helms are an issue depends on your intended usage. The only real problem with them that I see is the poor visibility of the opposite helm. Otherwise, as long as the engine controls are at both helms, berthing/mooring/anchoring should be fine.

- dock queen - helms donít matter and they are nicely out of the way and donít impinge on the cockpit accommodations. Sweet.

- day sailor/weekender - helm positions are fine for manoeuvring and fun for sailing. If the weather is bad and they actually go out in that weather, wear a jacket and hat. Oh the horror!

- part time cruiser/charter - this group is probably least excited about being out in the weather. Get an RV if you want to travel and donít want to be in the weather. Mount the silly looking biminis and the rain wonít get you and the sun wonít burn your bald spot. Snowflakes?

- full time cruiser/liveaboard - as with the dock queen the helms are hardly ever used - thatís what the autopilot is for. When you do need to helm you dress for the weather and know that youíre not going to be out there very long. Nothing to see here.

For those who think the helm positions are exposed theyíve obviously not been sailing on a cruising catamaran. The motion is nothing like on a monohull and on most cats the stern quarter position is relatively calm. As long as thereís good protection and handholds to get to the helms then no problem in anything short of a storm. And in a storm you throw out the drogue or parachute and watch movies inside the salon and try to ignore the sound of the shrieking wind.
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Old 18-09-2019, 17:53   #116
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

"The only real problem with them that I see is the poor visibility of the opposite helm." This why I scratched similar boats off our list. Offshore, I agree, you are generally not at the helm. Near shore and in traffic we are at the helm. Not being able to see in front of you or on the other side without looking though at least two sets of windows was a deal breaker for me. My rough calculation says there is about a 40 degree blind spot from the bow to in front of the beam on this boat. Admittedly, I have no experience with the helm on a cat in that position.
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Old 18-09-2019, 18:41   #117
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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"The only real problem with them that I see is the poor visibility of the opposite helm." This why I scratched similar boats off our list. Offshore, I agree, you are generally not at the helm. Near shore and in traffic we are at the helm. Not being able to see in front of you or on the other side without looking though at least two sets of windows was a deal breaker for me. My rough calculation says there is about a 40 degree blind spot from the bow to in front of the beam on this boat. Admittedly, I have no experience with the helm on a cat in that position.

Damn, I meant Ďopposite bowí, not Ďhelmí. Sigh. But you did correct it with your comment.

There was someone showing photos of the view from a Catana 50 footerís helm earlier this thread (or was it another one?)?that wasnít too bad for visibility, but those helms are higher than the Excessís. And you still canít see the opposite bow.
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Old 18-09-2019, 19:15   #118
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Damn, I should have said, "I know what you mean". The position of the helm is great for docking. The boat is interesting and am not convinced it is charter driven. They have the Lagoon. This is a heavy boat with huge sail area. The main is 1,000 feet. Not sure that is an ideal situation for charter. Any indication whether they will use the Beneteau network for sales or is this just another Group Beneteau brand? They have a lot, including Jeanneau, Wellcraft, etc etc. So much demand for cats, I'm not surprised, but a little surprised doesn't seem enough different from Lagoon to justify a new brand. Saw a video that said they made 120 Lagoon 450 per year for the last eight years. Great boats like xQuisite make 3 a year so I doubt Beneteau will go after that market.
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Old 19-09-2019, 06:31   #119
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

No, this one targets the Outremar / Nautitech market. The xQuisite X5 is a luxury world cruising cat with everything installed on board, with great world wide support and a very very short option list.

You buy the cat and get a full set of spare parts including all necessary tools to change them along with the boat. They only send the technician to fix things. Amazing and beyond anything I am aware off in the industry.

And the helm is really well protected behind a glass windshield and cabriolet bimini, all sheets are run covered to get a clean deck and for UV protection. Excellent wiring and documention about anything on board including all part numbers, serial numbers etc.
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Old 19-09-2019, 06:35   #120
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Saw a video that said they made 120 Lagoon 450 per year for the last eight years. Great boats like xQuisite make 3 a year so I doubt Beneteau will go after that market.

Is that correct? That's 960 boats and more the the L380 I think.
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