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Old 18-09-2018, 07:05   #31
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Well they cite Oscar Wilde:

"Moderation is a fatal thing... Nothing succeeds like excess"

So in my opinion they want to "fight" the mediocre, the standard. It is about lifestyle, youth, change and exceptionism - like jump from the cliffs or do the red bull insane stuff. The next slogan will be probably "YES, we can!" or "Make Benetau great again", who knows what those marketeers are breeding?

The target are young, rich, crazy, independent, sporty live-aboards, so I guess it will be a very small production of 10-15 units.
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Old 18-09-2018, 07:44   #32
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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I don't understand. Phaeton is branded WV isn't it ? But XCS50 or whatever they call it will be branded Excess, correct ? How is WV/phaeton a good example ?


And then you seem to say Beneteau is not Lagoon. OK let's take it taht way. But then Excess is not beneteau either ? and Nelson's argument above that wealthy people would not buy Beneteau (talking of Excess) doesn't work.
The biggest engine that WV has ever installed was 6 cylinder if I remember correctly. If I decide to buy a car with complicated W 12 engine I would never buy it from WV. I would tend to believe that they wouldn't have enough experience and maybe knowhow to make it. I would go for big american cars or Maserati, Lamborghini, etc.. Moreover, it's not only the engine, for these powerful cars you neeed a different gearbox, different brakes , stronger chassis and so on. As a matter of fact, Phateon doesn't exist anymore.

I wouldn't say that wealthy people wouldn't buy Beneteau, they might. But if they want to enter into this segment of market they would need a huge paradigm shift which is not easy. And even if they succed, it will take long years to persuade the customers. If I had 1-1,5 Mio euro to spend on cat , I would rather look at HH, Outremer 5 X, Alibi, Yapkuka, even one off cat but not Beneteau.




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Old 18-09-2018, 07:51   #33
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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The biggest engine that WV has ever installed was 6 cylinder if I remember correctly. If I decide to buy a car with complicated W 12 engine I would never buy it from WV. I would tend to believe that they wouldn't have enough experience and maybe knowhow to make it. I would go for big american cars or Maserati, Lamborghini, etc.. Moreover, it's not only the engine, for these powerful cars you neeed a different gearbox, different brakes , stronger chassis and so on. As a matter of fact, Phateon doesn't exist anymore.

I wouldn't say that wealthy people wouldn't buy Beneteau, they might. But if they want to enter into this segment of market they would need a huge paradigm shift which is not easy. And even if they succed, it will take long years to persuade the customers. If I had 1-1,5 Mio euro to spend on cat , I would rather look at HH, Outremer 5 X, Alibi, Yapkuka, even one off cat but not Beneteau.




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+1

VW had a good reputaion for average Joe cars when they introduced the Phaeton.
They failed, not because Phaeton is a lemon, in fact its a good car even in the luxury segment.

The point is: Its simply hard to enter the luxury segment if you carry the average Joe smell.


Especially if you still try to leverage synergies. Like using the same dealership.

Or even worse: re-using some small bits here and there which is easily recognized - like the power window switches in the Phaeton doors.
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Old 18-09-2018, 07:57   #34
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

You know that VW Groupe is Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Bugatti? Doesn't seem to hurt the luxury car image with being owned by VW. Also, the technology for engines flows among all under the VW umbrella including the W series.

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Old 18-09-2018, 08:27   #35
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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You know that VW Groupe is Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Bugatti? Doesn't seem to hurt the luxury car image with being owned by VW. Also, the technology for engines flows among all under the VW umbrella including the W series.

Matt

ah, at last someone understands. Porsche is not branded WV, Excess is not branded Beneteau, Gunboat is not branded Outremer.
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Old 18-09-2018, 08:28   #36
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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You know that VW Groupe is Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Bugatti? Doesn't seem to hurt the luxury car image with being owned by VW. Also, the technology for engines flows among all under the VW umbrella including the W series.

Matt
Bugatti used a W16 for example.

Just fun trivia.

IMO it didn't help the Phaeton that it arrived during VW's worst styling years. But that aside.

Excess is a tacky name IMO.

But then again I think the X5 is an ugly form-over-function boat with Grandma's interior design sensibility. Like an one of those over-styled fifth-wheels on the water. It might as well come with plastic covers for all the cushions. Nobody I know under 50 owns any lacquered furniture in their home. That stuff is an immediate turn off.

That doesn't necessarily mean to square off everything either. They're not quite offensively ugly, but newer Leopards seem to be trending towards an 80's vapor-wave aesthetic as far as making everything angular. Like the "cars of the future" in the movie Total Recall.

If you're going to install glass: Maximize area. Don't use curves (circular, oval, or pill-shaped port-lights for example) except at the ends. Bali, Lagoon and newer FP boats get it right. What little I can see of the Excess boat definitely gets it wrong.

Don't install swoopy arches for the traveller creating unnecessarily large blindspots. It's not an early 90's Mitsubishi Mirage. If you're going to spoil the cockpit with a traveller arch, have it impose as little as possible.

I suspect the "IKEA" interiors and more restrained design of the latest Lagoons hit a sweet spot and are exactly what's necessary to attract a younger audience if that's the goal.

If I won the lottery, I'd strongly consider picking up a Lagoon 50. For me, that's about the pinnacle of modern catamaran design.

That's just my 2c.
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Old 18-09-2018, 08:42   #37
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

The X5 is not that bad, very stylish, tons of storage, covered lines, nice protected cockpit, all remote controlled gizmos, programmable switches and lots of living space, great heads and showers. Very clean and neat installations - compared to the Lagoons cable and hoses salat behind the panels with a lot of attention to all the details. Designed with love and very modern - dont mixe it up with old-fashioned Antares. Comes complete - a very short options list.

For my taste a little too much of technology in the electric system with the busses and remote switches what could cause headaches under way, even they are all manually operate-able.

It is designed for liveaboards and not for charter.


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Old 18-09-2018, 09:12   #38
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Excess? Seriously tone deaf. What marketing team pitched that name. Wow.
I thought the same thing. The "Too Much?" LOL Excess WHAT, exactly?
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Old 18-09-2018, 10:06   #39
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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We'll have to agree to disagree.

Without going into all the things I really hate about the styling on that boat, I'll sum up my thoughts like this: It's got all the style of a 2006 Toyota Sienna.

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Old 18-09-2018, 10:15   #40
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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The X5 is not that bad, very stylish, tons of storage, covered lines, nice protected cockpit, all remote controlled gizmos, programmable switches and lots of living space, great heads and showers. Very clean and neat installations - compared to the Lagoons cable and hoses salat behind the panels with a lot of attention to all the details. Designed with love and very modern - dont mixe it up with old-fashioned Antares. Comes complete - a very short options list.

For my taste a little too much of technology in the electric system with the busses and remote switches what could cause headaches under way, even they are all manually operate-able.

It is designed for liveaboards and not for charter.



I am not sure what the X5 (ugliest boat ever to me) has to do with this thread. People interested in buying a cat should stay away from those guys in the 2sd video. Another of their video is called "Antares 44 vs Outremer 5X". What a joke !
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Old 18-09-2018, 15:02   #41
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
You know that VW Groupe is Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Bugatti? Doesn't seem to hurt the luxury car image with being owned by VW. Also, the technology for engines flows among all under the VW umbrella including the W series.

Matt
Yeaahh.. Skoda and Seat also is in WV group .

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Old 18-09-2018, 15:16   #42
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
You know that VW Groupe is Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Bugatti? Doesn't seem to hurt the luxury car image with being owned by VW. Also, the technology for engines flows among all under the VW umbrella including the W series.

Matt
Problem is not being owned by VW.

Problem is if they try to use synergies. Like selling a Bugatti through Skoda dealership won't work. Or using any Skoda part in a Lambo.

And its hard to establish a luxury brand if everybody knows your an average Joe company. All the brands you listed were established decades before the were bought by VW.
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Old 18-09-2018, 16:37   #43
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

I went through the site and it is an interesting strategy. Seems like the people who will buy their boats are well off working people who will have to leverage up to buy them. That's a pretty good sized market.

Look at Island Packet...they were successful marketing to similar demographics of an older generation. They had a good run, but their market is dying out.

Time will tell. I know I won't be buying one. I won't take on debt, and won't tie up that much cash in a depreciating asset.....even though I could.
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Old 19-09-2018, 03:36   #44
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Also young and sportive and probably much more affordable, the French-Tunesian Aventura 34, brand new https://www.aventura-catamarans.com/...95803580&pid=9
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Old 20-09-2018, 03:29   #45
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Also young and sportive and probably much more affordable, the French-Tunesian Aventura 34, brand new https://www.aventura-catamarans.com/...95803580&pid=9
Unfortunately not ocean going...:
It is more for the weekend / coastal cruiser.

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