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Old 04-10-2019, 07:23   #151
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

They try to sell to a new market segment. Lagoons are for comfy silver age couples, while eXcess is targeting posh youngsters with money, it looks fast, you get sunburned, you have the helms as on a performance cat and IKEA style interior as you use to have at the college years, so feel at home, its a VW Golf GTI with spoilers, not a Ferrari.

They make it more expensive to make it more attractive, strategy of Apple, you get the same and nore power with a Samsung, but Apple is Apple and eXcess must be eXcessive. Under the hood, plattform strategy, VW Golf vs. VW Golf GTI, two helms for 30k, same chassis, same engine (except the turbo, 1 point for the VW ) .

It is a toy for hollydays, near shore cruising, playing and party - not for liveaboard and circumnavigations.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:33   #152
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Bloody hell, never considered myself a comfy silver haired sailer. . I will have to send an email to Brett off Cat Impi - I am sure he was also unaware he was also a comfy silver haired sailer


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Old 04-10-2019, 07:58   #153
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

The Excess 12 and the Lagoon 40 are essentially the same boat. Same length, width, draft, sail area, slight difference in light displacement. They even look the same. The helm position is the big difference. They could have handled that with an option on the Lagoon. I suspect very few Outremer buyers will switch. Will be interesting to see how many people choose the performance option. I'm sure Beneteau knows their business. Will it be sold through existing Beneteau dealer network or separately like the Lagoon generally is? If so perhaps its raison d'etre is to give Beneteau dealers a cat to sell without taking away from Lagoon network>
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Old 04-10-2019, 17:43   #154
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
They try to sell to a new market segment. Lagoons are for comfy silver age couples, while eXcess is targeting posh youngsters with money, it looks fast, you get sunburned, you have the helms as on a performance cat and IKEA style interior as you use to have at the college years, so feel at home, its a VW Golf GTI with spoilers, not a Ferrari.

They make it more expensive to make it more attractive, strategy of Apple, you get the same and nore power with a Samsung, but Apple is Apple and eXcess must be eXcessive. Under the hood, plattform strategy, VW Golf vs. VW Golf GTI, two helms for 30k, same chassis, same engine (except the turbo, 1 point for the VW ) .

It is a toy for hollydays, near shore cruising, playing and party - not for liveaboard and circumnavigations.


To me nothing about this cat looks fast, looks like a Lagoon with repositioned helms as someone else stated.
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Old 14-10-2019, 06:35   #155
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

I was really looking forward to seeing it in person, even after reading all negative comments here. But after seeing it in Annapolis I have to agree with majority: it is not a good cat. Feels like half-baked job. Even my wife , who is not very accomplished sailor was asking: who designed that thing? I don't mind back placement of the helm in principle, but this one designed really badly: terrible visibility from the helm, partially due to the big piece of black glass in the corner . Interesting enough they had Bavaria Open 40 in the next berth with helm at the back as well, but it has much better line of vision. Winches for headsails are position in such a way so it is hard to see what you are trimming. I like idea of the openning in the roof like Moody 51, but how one will pack main sail into the sailpack when you cannot reach it? No traveller, only 2 narrow placed blocks to control mainsail, which means very high loads on boomwang. Overall it feels some marketing job, not really well designed sailboat
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Old 17-10-2019, 03:57   #156
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

I had a look at the 12 at the Cannes Yachting Festival, tried to keep an open mind, but I didn't like that sunroof or the helm biminis ... dangerous if you're on the coach roof, although I believe they're optional.

I hope they go more performance in the future, I think they are playing safe with the current range. Time to get back to the old Lagoon 67S philosophy in my opinion
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Old 22-01-2020, 06:08   #157
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Yesterday we had the chance to take a look at the Excess 11 on the BOOT in Dusseldorf. The "XCS 11" is the new entry level Modell of the Brand with 11,33 Meter in length (37.2 Feet). So it should be compared to the not longer available Lagoon 380 or the Lagoon 39.

Maybe even a boat close to the discontinued Mahe 36... but with more performance in mind.

My opinion: Overall they build a very nice boat for a reasonable price - not a bargain, but at least a new entry level oportunity for non millionairs.
The trend in the past years seemed to be: bigger, higher priced luxury cats that i could never afford without putting it into a charter programm, which i do not really like...

Base price for the boat (3 Cabin/2 Heads owners version) is 235.000€.

You can configure the boat, ready to sail but minimal optioned, of below 290K€. Very very well equipped at about 340K€, before a possible discount...

The aft helm stations are not my taste. But they do offer certain advantages. Basically i could live with it.

Comparing the weight and standard sail sizze of the 11 with the L380 and the L39, the boat should sail very well, closer to the 380 than the 39. The manufacturer mentions the idea of creating a cat closer to the performance section of the market.

XCS 1: 9 tons, 22 sqm jib, 55 sqm mainsail.
L39: 11 tons, 32 sqm jib, 38sqm mainsail.
L380: 7,3 tons, 52sqm genua, 30 sqm mainsail.

Design and quality of the interior is absolutely comparable with the competitors from Lagoon, FP or Nautitech. It is still a sailboat and not a condo. So focusing on practicability, weight and useability is ok in my eyes... Everything looked nice crafted and at the right place. No unneccesary bling bling stuff that would just increase price without any benefits for the sailor or liveaboard...

The displayed 3 Cabins owner version had the well known spacious owner hull, which many prefer today. Nice layout and spacious heads/showers as well. Nothing to change here!

The optional sliding roof top costs 2021€, the optional "mini" biminis are 7680€. Not shure if i would opt for those two items...

I liked the anquer chain design, which is similar to the 39 (chain running on a track on top). Easy access.

The boat looks very nice from outside.

Finally i think it is very nice that there is another entry level Boat below the existing 38-40 Feet Cats form Lagoon, FP, R&C and Nautitech.

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Old 23-01-2020, 04:32   #158
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
Bloody hell, never considered myself a comfy silver haired sailer. . I will have to send an email to Brett off Cat Impi - I am sure he was also unaware he was also a comfy silver haired sailer


Greg H
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Yikes; we must be neighbors - I'm in the same boat! ;-)


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Old 23-01-2020, 11:16   #159
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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I'm curious to hear what people think about group Beneteau's move to introduce Excess Catamaran as a sportier brand of catamaran for the "new sailor" as their marketing material states. It seems funny to have watched Catana go after the charter market with the Bali line only to see Beneteau move into a sportier line.
Have not looked into them yet. My first question would be why did they choose to name it Excess? Were they thinking excess cost, weight, wetted surface? If it is as suggested that the boat is a move away from the 3 story cat trend I welcome it. Maybe they should seek Balance. Never mind Balance is already used.
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Old 23-01-2020, 12:00   #160
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Over the marketing stunt, the xcs 11 shall be the most interesting as its the brand's first own hulls, not from a lagoon. Also the deck is infusion moulded apparently, I shall see this weekend
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Old 25-01-2020, 10:09   #161
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Yesterday we saw the Excess 11 as well.

The interior layout and feel was surprisingly nice. While being the smallest Excess, it still felt quite spacious inside.

The sailing performance is a big question mark. (Seen one report of "wind speed" sailing for the 12, but I'm sceptical )

I'm sure there is a market for mass produced catamarans that are significantly cheaper (and less performing) than Outremers, but I don't know if these Excesses are performant enough?

The aft helms seemed to be great for docking. Having sailed monohulls for all my life, though, and most of that time without autopilot, it might be nice to have some more protection in a future boat.
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Old 25-01-2020, 16:56   #162
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Yesterday we saw the Excess 11 as well.

The interior layout and feel was surprisingly nice. While being the smallest Excess, it still felt quite spacious inside.

The sailing performance is a big question mark. (Seen one report of "wind speed" sailing for the 12, but I'm sceptical )
Its 9 tonne for goodness sake, no question mark there. Seawind 1160 is a bit over 6 tonne, as my american friends would say, do the math(s).
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Old 25-01-2020, 16:58   #163
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Its 9 tonne for goodness sake, no question mark there. Seawind 1160 is a bit over 6 tonne, as my american friends would say, do the math(s).


So you donít think the 12m will sail at wind speed?
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Old 25-01-2020, 17:18   #164
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

Dang, and i chose Lite over Excess! Feeling cheated. But only from a model name standpoint, and certainly not regarding what I got for end product. And not based on impressions from a boat show, but ownership for 12 months including four months of cruising Bahamas, coming back thru Florida, four days crossing the Gulf of Mexico, etc. The Seawind 1160 Lite was comfortable to cruise, but also fun to sail. Our background is racing multihulls, and sailing is what we enjoy. We just spent yesterday day sailing from our home dock, for fun and enjoyment of sailing. Tacking to windward up the channel. Tacking angle less than 90 deg, and sailing at 30 deg AWA. Yeah, I'll stick with Lite, over Excess. Sailing performance. No one would ever put a Seawind in the condo cat category, knowingly.
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Old 26-01-2020, 00:19   #165
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Re: New Excess Catamaran Brand

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Its 9 tonne for goodness sake, no question mark there. Seawind 1160 is a bit over 6 tonne, as my american friends would say, do the math(s).
I was thinking that they could solve the math for me and supply me with a VPP polar diagram

Maybe I'll ask Seawind for some as well.
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