New design - opinions / idea's wanted

[Jeannius]

I'm a Engineer for Land Rover

Steven... You based around Solihull?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Dave,

I'm not sure if you're proving your point with those pics - it looks as though there's more spray behind the mast . Have you ever sailed in a boat with a fwd cockpit? I've read a couple of reviews on Chris White cats with fwd cockpits, and they seemed to be very positive.
I don't condone standing watch from inside the cabin, but have read enough cruisers' books and blogs to know it happens enough. There is the reality of short-handed long-distance cruising to be considered. Maybe, since the topic is about designing a cruising boat from the keels up, then there should be some discussion on the best rig - one that gives decent performance, but can be left unattended. Just a thought.

Kevin

BTW, I quite like the look of this cat: SMG-Multihull - sail the difference

Nope, never sailed a fwd cockpit boat, but have crewed on enough boat's to know it's bloody wet when sitting in front of the mast when pushing fast.

Used to get bloody wet being foredecky on mono's as well.

Leaving a rig unattended!!!!! plenty of chartery types that have short ,heavy rig's on heavy hull's already, not sure if we need anymore.

These are idiot proof, they are charterboat's.

Sailed many thousand's of single handed miles on my last cat, just reefed early and often, and could pretty much leave her unattended.

The whole idea of having long, light , fast multi's whith plenty of stick, is that in 5 knot's of wind you can sail at 5 knot's.

In 20 knot's of wind you can do 20 knot's of boatspeed.

mean's that you have to put a tuck in at about 15-20 knot's of wind to be comfortable though,coming back to 14 knot's, but what's wrong with that?

Dave.

[44'cruisingcat]

Dave, the idea of a front cockpit is that you don't need to walk round the side decks to get to the mast. You don't have to sit in it when the "firehose" is going, you would use the rear cockpit then. But when it's nice, and warm and dry, the front cockpit can be a great place to be, so I'm told.

[Steven Prince]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

Steven... You based around Solihull?

I live in Nuneaton, just above Coventry, about 30 minutes from Solihull.

I work at the Gaydon development site.

[Steven Prince]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Kevin

BTW, I quite like the look of this cat: SMG-Multihull - sail the difference

Thanks for the link. Some features sound interesting. I like the A frame mast.

[Lodesman]

Steven,

I like the A-frame concept too. Here's another link that discusses the A-frame's merits: Home

Kevin

[Lodesman]

Should have added this link as well: Sail Propulsion - Revisiting a Mast-Aft Sailing Rig

Another concept in sailing rigs to consider for your design.

[Tnflakbait]

I must say I agree with Dave. Perhaps on some cats with less than spectacular performance you will not be on the sheets. On a good performing cat you are on the sheets if spray is coming aboard. The forward cockpit is better as a lounge. You want your winches/sheets in the aft cockpit. TRUST ME cats get a firehose effect when you get going fast. And it is much more intense than most monohulls. I don't know too many monohulls that I havn't enjoyed sitting behind a dodger on either. If your boat is moving above 15 knots or so you WILL want to be in an aft cockpit with sheet in your hand hooked to a jam cleat.
My current boat is a light, fast, small cruising cat. In many ways similar to Dave's old boat. If you want good performance on your large cat, it will be a similar beast.
Steven, You should sail sport catamarans like Hobies and F-18s as much as possible while designing the boat. If you don't have much catamaran experience, these dinghys can give an exagerated feel of a much larger catamaran. You can then draw from real experience without much cost.

I cannot speak for slower cats as I have little experience with them. However there is a Chris White cat on my dock and it has several features I am unimpressed with.
-Forward cockpit and NO aft cockpit (not even a way to walk around the stern of the boat.
-On a trip from Bahamas to Cali the top speed was 13 kts. Not impressed.
-When the boat was struck by lightning on this trip all steering was lost as it is hydraulic with no manual backup.

Just some thoughts...

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by Steven Prince

I live in Nuneaton, just above Coventry, about 30 minutes from Solihull.

I work at the Gaydon development site.

I know Gaydon well or at least I did in the days when it was BL Systems Advanced Vehicle Design Centre site. That ages me... You probably weren't even born then!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Tnflakbait

there is a Chris White cat on my dock and it has several features I am unimpressed with.

My point with the CW Atlantic reviews was that the reviewers liked the forward cockpit; I'm sure there were a bunch of things they didn't like about the Atlantic, but I didn't think they were pertinent to the discussion.
Again with the "firehose" - where is the spray - everywhere, or in certain locations? Needing to hide behind the dodger indicates spray towards the aft cockpit. Is there a reason you can't have a dodger for a forward cockpit? Have you ever sailed in a forward cockpit?

Kevin

[Steven Prince]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

I know Gaydon well or at least I did in the days when it was BL Systems Advanced Vehicle Design Centre site. That ages me... You probably weren't even born then!

The site has changed quite a bit since then. There's 3 new office buildings, and Aston Martin Manufacturing facility is now at gaydon. Test track also has more 4x4 tracks. Where abouts did you work at gaydon then.

[Steven Prince]

I've looked at the centre cockpits and I am not keen on how they make the boat look. I may have a small cockpit as an emergency place to control the lines if the main cockpit controls jam.

The center cockpits i think tend to ruin the appearance of a catamaran and make the rear of the boat look very squashed. I like the idea of having a large area at the back for people to sit and talk. I think a stern cockpit will always be more protected than a center cockpit is.

Me personally, will be going with a stern cockpit, i am seriously considering an A-Frame mast to, as this I think will remove alot of the stresses that are imposed on the bridge deck, and it will also remove alot of the wind turbulance that the main sail is exposed to from the mast.

Please keep sending the innovations and idea's coming in.

If there is any one in England that would mind taking me out for a day sail on a large catamaran and show me some of the things they would like, it would be appreciated.

[Tnflakbait]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Again with the "firehose" - where is the spray - everywhere, or in certain locations? Needing to hide behind the dodger indicates spray towards the aft cockpit. Is there a reason you can't have a dodger for a forward cockpit? Have you ever sailed in a forward cockpit?

Kevin

No I havn't sailed aboard a forward cockpit but I have sailed on many large open cats some with solid wingbridges. There is no reason you can't have a dodger in the forward cockpit besides aesthetics and defeating the purpose of the forward cockpit's "open" feeling.

I'm not sure how much clearer the firehose effect on a cruising catamaran can be illustrated than this video link:

YouTube - Catamaran Sailing Fast

I think you will have a more efficient rig without an a-frame rig. You have more windage with two masts. One rotating mast will produce minor turbulance and a more powerfull drive from your main. Just my opinion.

[Lodesman]

Tnflakbait,

It looks like the spray can be lessened with consideration to hull design - also thanks to YouTube:

YouTube - Catamaran Sailing Very Fast

= I don't think anyone will ever convince me that plumb bows are better.

The windage might be greater with an A-frame, but that can be minimized by making them a thin aerofoil-shape. There are the benefits of less weight aloft, and no compression load in the centre of the bridgedeck. You might want to revisit Brian Eiland's comments on the effective loss of sail area when it's located behind a big stick (even a rotating mast).

Kevin

[Tnflakbait]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Tnflakbait,

It looks like the spray can be lessened with consideration to hull design - also thanks to YouTube:

= I don't think anyone will ever convince me that plumb bows are better.

Kevin

I agree that the plumb bows make it worse for spray. My boats hulls are far from plumb and love to spit water. (In certain conditions) Cats are often very dry. Just like Indigo is in this video. Nice boat!

More Youtube fun:
Aita Pe'a Pe'a

YouTube - Catamaran sailing