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Old 12-06-2020, 05:06   #1
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Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Good day all

Its almost summer and usually I start to think about boats again!!))

Been doing lots of research and Iíve kind of narrowed it down to these 2 boats.

Some reasons .. 3 cabin layout plus 2 single births for children (I have 2 young kids) , pleasing to the eye design, comfortable living spaces, price around the 500/550k euros mark, ease of sailing by a couple or single handed.

I would potentially do a light charter for a few years than mainly sail the Med with a view to expand later on..

I am a commercial captain and am doing all the sailing licenses right now so I have navigation experience all be it on merchant ships ))

What are your thoughts on these boats?

I have come across a review ruby rose I think weíre they murder the Neel 47 for its poor build quality thatís one concern I have or maybe it was just one bad boat rushed out for the boat shows ..

Cheers!!
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Old 12-06-2020, 20:02   #2
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

We had a really good guided tour of the Neel 47 at Annapolis in 2019. I went in excited, and left depressed. While the main hull upper area was very nice, the build quality in the engine room wasn't impressive, the outer hull cabins were not a place to send anyone you like to rest. I'm sure the performance is decent, but the build quality didn't look great compared to other boats priced similarly.

This video below summarizes things pretty well. The Ruby Rose review series is well worth watching for any boat you may be interested in. They don't pull any punches but are very analytical in how they score boats. I found them much better than what counts for boat reviews in sailing publications that rely on advertising.



Of the production Cats we saw and liked the most, #1 were the Seawind Cats, #2 were the Nautitech. The cockpit design is why preferred the Seawind, the interior fit and finish of the Nautitech and layout were excellent, but I don't like elevated bridge deck helms, nor do I like aft/outboard helm stations. Otherwise performance wise it was excellent.

The FP didn't really stand out good or bad to us. From RR another good video.

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Old 13-06-2020, 04:27   #3
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Thanks for the videos 👍

I did see them previously to posting..

On the Neel front I remember the folks from ruby rose saying that they would view another Neel 47 and give them a re set so to speak .. might have been a boat rushed out for the show..

I also really find their inputs very good on reviews.

Like for example the weak joints on the steering mechanisms of the FP

Still the Astrea won European yacht of the year 2019 & the Neel 47 Multihull of the year 2020

Surely that must mean something..

Perhaps I should also include the seawind - not a fan of the looks but it seems like a solid boat.
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Old 13-06-2020, 11:42   #4
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

If you haven't been to either Annapolis, or the big catamaran show in France you owe it to yourself to go. Both my wife and I were extremely interested in the Neel. I read the same accolades, and thought that maybe the Ruby Rose people were being a little rough to gain views. After I saw the "show ready" boat I honestly thought they pulled their punches and let them off easy.


The Seawind Interior was a little basic/sterile, but the cockpit, ventilation, and performance to comfort ratio was fantastic. Nautitech had a nicer interior by our tastes, and similar performance. We just didn't like the cockpit design nearly as much. It all comes down to priorities. For pure volume to dollars, the Lagoons and Leopards were great and probably the better choice for charter guests.
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Old 14-06-2020, 09:43   #5
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Are there any Neel 47 owners on this forum that can comment on the build quality of their boats?
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Old 14-06-2020, 13:16   #6
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

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Originally Posted by Kev77 View Post
Are there any Neel 47 owners on this forum that can comment on the build quality of their boats?

Not an owner but recall seeing a site with substantial info from someone who'd purchased. To say he wasn't a happy chap would be an understatement of biblical proportions.


I'll dig around and see if I can find it assuming his story isn't familiar to you.
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Old 15-06-2020, 06:22   #7
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Here is the YouTube channel from an owner of a Neel 51. He also complained about some build quality issues but overall seems relatively happy out cruising.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ducatiandlambo/videos

Personally whilst I think the tri can have a better sailing feel (especially if coming from a monohull), and possibly better performance in some conditions, overall I think that a catamaran can offer a better use of space for full time liveaboard cruising, particularly in relation to dinghy storage and access to the water.

Please note that I said "can" though, as not all catamarans get this right either, and for me personally I still think that catamaran access to the water and dinghy boarding could be A LOT better, taking more advantage of the wide beam.

I did see this photo of an Astrea 42, which whilst not perfect does seem to show that they have done some more thinking about this question:



my 2 cents...

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Old 15-06-2020, 06:34   #8
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
Here is the YouTube channel from an owner of a Neel 51. He also complained about some build quality issues but overall seems relatively happy out cruising.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ducatiandlambo/videos

Personally whilst I think the tri can have a better sailing feel (especially if coming from a monohull), and possibly better performance in some conditions, overall I think that a catamaran can offer a better use of space for full time liveaboard cruising, particularly in relation to dinghy storage and access to the water.

Please note that I said "can" though, as not all catamarans get this right either, and for me personally I still think that catamaran access to the water and dinghy boarding could be A LOT better, taking more advantage of the wide beam.

I did see this photo of an Astrea 42, which whilst not perfect does seem to show that they have done some more thinking about this question:



my 2 cents...

Thanks m8

Thatís also a reason why I included the Astrea 42 as access to the water and lowering and lifting the dinghy as well as paddle boards, surf boards ect is a breeze with the hydraulic platform..

On the Neel 47 I also saw a video on how easier it is to lift and drop the dinghy.
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Old 15-06-2020, 06:52   #9
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Yeah I don't really follow exactly which models have that type of option but I've seen it on a Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 too (I saw this on the Sailing Doodles channel when they were cruising on a friends boat)

You can find those episodes (numbers 8 to 19 I think) in the middle of this playlist of season 4, cruising France, Med, Italy, etc. There is some footage of how this works (well or not) for swimming, dinghy boarding, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...doWs9Q77GWzdiK

All hydraulic (and the sensors) is another thing to go wrong though, and just like passerelles, I'm sure it does.

By contrast, here is the setup on a big Wharram (Pahi 52) which just uses lines to raise and lower the platform.



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Old 17-06-2020, 13:59   #10
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
Yeah I don't really follow exactly which models have that type of option but I've seen it on a Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 too (I saw this on the Sailing Doodles channel when they were cruising on a friends boat)

You can find those episodes (numbers 8 to 19 I think) in the middle of this playlist of season 4, cruising France, Med, Italy, etc. There is some footage of how this works (well or not) for swimming, dinghy boarding, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...doWs9Q77GWzdiK

All hydraulic (and the sensors) is another thing to go wrong though, and just like passerelles, I'm sure it does.

By contrast, here is the setup on a big Wharram (Pahi 52) which just uses lines to raise and lower the platform.



That is some platform
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Old 18-06-2020, 06:07   #11
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev77 View Post
That is some platform
Yes it is! And if you are interested you can see how that type of design works (well or not) in this short video of the same Pahi 52/53. It may give you some more ideas about what could be incorporated on other boats.

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Old 18-06-2020, 08:42   #12
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

I have seen some Neels and been on two.


To me, a similar sized cat offers better space.


b.
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Old 20-06-2020, 04:49   #13
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I have seen some Neels and been on two.


To me, a similar sized cat offers better space.


b.
I hear ya for sure you have more space in the Cat

What I like of the Neel is the design and the price point for the 47 is interesting considering itís almost half the price compared to the 51!

The only thing holding me back is the build quality issues that you read about all over the Internet sadly

I guess if you gonna lay down 500k plus best chartering your options and than decide..!
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Old 20-06-2020, 05:57   #14
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

The build quality is definitely an issue to consider, but to be fair in my opinion many of these types of issues occur on a lot of production boats except for a few at the very high end (eg: maybe Amel, etc).

So don't think you can just order a new boat, take delivery, and go cruising or chartering, without there being issues to resolve first (and afterwards too).

This even the case on multimillion dollar super yachts. They all still need their initial shake down and warranty repairs and changes over the first 6 months to 1 year.

I guess my point is that you should factor all that into your thinking.

If the boat is still attractive price wise, even after adding some (possibly substantial) costs for the necessary fixes and lost time (which can be mitigated with less aggressive planning - ie: don't book charters for 2 weeks after delivery of the new boat, etc) then why not still consider it.

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Old 20-06-2020, 08:11   #15
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Re: Neel 47 or Astrea 42 🤔

If you really want the Neel, but recently documented build quality is getting in your way, then consider for a moment how the people at Neel must feel after having been hit hard by the Ruby Rose review. The boat building business is not easy. It seems many builders are not far from ruin at any time. Great opportunity to have an honest and open discussion with the builder. My guess is that the Neel company would be glad to have the opportunity to build a quality boat for an enthusiastic owner, and in the process rebuild their reputation.

Some things to consider...

Negotiate with the builder to provide a bond that sets aside money to address any deficiencies discovered by survey at boat delivery.

Include in your contract final payment contingent on the completed boat passing your approval, which includes sea trail and survey. The final payment should be at least 20 percent of the boat value.

Negotiate into the contract that the surveyor of your choice has access to the boat in the boat yard during the build. Build into the contract inspection by your surveyor at specific milestones in the build process. Map out about five such milestones, that allows close following of progress. The contract stipulates progress payments will only be made after your sign off of each progress point.

If the builder cant see their way to building elements into the contract that assure quality then absolutely walk away.
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