Nautitech 40.2 vs fp Lavezzi 40

[djw2477]

Trying to compare a 2004 fp Lavezzi and a 2008 nautitech 40
Which sails better/faster / safe for a circumnavigation

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by djw2477

Trying to compare a 2004 fp Lavezzi and a 2008 nautitech 40
Which sails better/faster / safe for a circumnavigation

Depends on condition with this age,.just get the better condition one. 4 years younger speaks for nautitech. Both are similar in performance.

The steering position on nautitech is a noGo for offshore on cat, Lavezzi bulkhead helm is much safer. Yes catana has similar helmstations but there are significant differences why a catana helm is safe and nautitech (and many other) copy missing these details.

[barnakiel]

These are about the same boat.


I have sailed both on day trips with friends.


I did like the Nautitech a bit more because I could better feel the helm there. I also preferred the interior; but this is aesthetics and so each person will have their own preference.


Both boats sailed OK. Nothing fancy. As to be expected from charter-designed craft.



If you rtw then you will want the one that is in better physical condition. It is a long long road and you want to sail and enjoy life, not spend time fixing things.


b.

[arsenelupiga]

when one asking about performance, there is critical number that needs to be calculated first.

This is what will be total weight of stuff you plan to load.

We, lagoon 400, outsailed lavezzi 40 for a day in 5 days trip, because these guys were overloaded.

The most stupid thing is to buy boat for performance and suffer with less space and spend extra money, and then overload and be slower, hahahahah.

Boat will keep good sailing abilities until loaded no more than 50% of max load specified by manufacturer.

55ft performance cat will be happy with about 1.5T of stuff. Lagoon 400 around 2.5T, etc

[chris in SG]

No point me getting defensive about the Nautitech 40 helm position. I like it but I can understand why it might be considered unsafe. With 90% of cruising undertaken on autopilot, it is more important to have a secure 2nd helm position. This was my solution - all DIY but looks ok from a distance:

[Tin Tin]

The Lavezzi light ship is 1.4T less, it has 30sq ft more sail area and about same LWL. So on paper the Lavezzi should be a slightly quicker boat in lighter winds. I don't like exposed helms, Catanas included - it is more about sun and weather saftey than physical safety. The Catana guys say the same thing about helming - they use autopilot most of the time. When we do long passages we always have someone at the helm, not sitting inside looking out the salon window, that's just us though. Some Lavezzis built around the time of the global financial crisis had significant osmosis issues. I would suggest that most of them have since had the hulls sanded down and epoxy barrier coats applied. Check with current owner - ask for reciepts. Also consider prospect of your autopilot failing halfway to Tahiti.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

when one asking about performance, there is critical number that needs to be calculated first.

This is what will be total weight of stuff you plan to load.

We, lagoon 400, outsailed lavezzi 40 for a day in 5 days trip, because these guys were overloaded.

The most stupid thing is to buy boat for performance and suffer with less space and spend extra money, and then overload and be slower, hahahahah.

Boat will keep good sailing abilities until loaded no more than 50% of max load specified by manufacturer.

55ft performance cat will be happy with about 1.5T of stuff. Lagoon 400 around 2.5T, etc

Lavezzi has 2.7t payload and is happy with about 2t loaded. That's a lot for a 40ft cat.
When you outsailed a Lavezzi with a Lagoon 400, the Lavezzi crew had no glue about sailing.
And a Lavezzi sails super well for a charter cat, has double diamonds with shorter spreaders (so closer is possible), it has 90sqm of sail area with a low boom and a low weight. Just the factory dacron sail and its cut is awfull. Put elvström Epex sails with a good cut on a Lavezzi and it's flying, a totally different cat. Also a big difference as the performance have performance sail while an FP gets the cheapest **** dacron.Yes that costs money but well invested together with folding props that improves sailing and performance a lot. And the rig is on the very well dimensioned side, the 11t succesor lightship Lipari has the same rig and mast.
Downside every Lavezzi has a kind of osmosis as they used a kind of filler between the gelcoat and fibreglass that sucks in moisture like a sponge and keeps the fibreglass of underwatership wet so osmosis develops. The only cure is all gelcoat and the layer away to bare fibreglass then 2 coats of binelester with 450mats that reenforce the hulls and isolate the polyester resin AFTER it's properly dried. The only way to treat it and as Lavezzi is lightly build if it has osmosis you need to treat it as that becomes quickly a structural issue.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

The Lavezzi light ship is 1.4T less, it has 30sq ft more sail area and about same LWL. So on paper the Lavezzi should be a slightly quicker boat in lighter winds. I don't like exposed helms, Catanas included - it is more about sun and weather saftey than physical safety. The Catana guys say the same thing about helming - they use autopilot most of the time. When we do long passages we always have someone at the helm, not sitting inside looking out the salon window, that's just us though. Some Lavezzis built around the time of the global financial crisis had significant osmosis issues. I would suggest that most of them have since had the hulls sanded down and epoxy barrier coats applied. Check with current owner - ask for reciepts. Also consider prospect of your autopilot failing halfway to Tahiti.

Correct about osmosis issue on all Lavezzi. The older ones till about 2003 are really bad, also bad resin used. 2004 could be a 2003 build so check carefully. Afterwards much better.
But when the hulls are just sanded down and put epoxy barrier onto gelcoat that's the worst as it encapsulates the humidity. I described in my other post what need to be done to cure it permanently.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by chris in SG

No point me getting defensive about the Nautitech 40 helm position. I like it but I can understand why it might be considered unsafe. With 90% of cruising undertaken on autopilot, it is more important to have a secure 2nd helm position. This was my solution - all DIY but looks ok from a distance:

An orca core plus a nice 12.4" or 14.4" Samsung tablet with orca app (and some others like predict wind, victron VRM....) is all you need to steer and supervise the cat from every position that's comfortable and give you a good view. On 40ft you have too less space for a dedicated forward facing navstation and also not needed anymore. On long passages like ocean crossing I have a big paper chart on the salon table where I mark our position and a clear table cloth over it. So I need to just clean up that part of the table with the chart section I need, more then sufficent.

[djw2477]

This is what will be total weight of stuff you plan to load.

We, lagoon 400, outsailed lavezzi 40 for a day in 5 days trip, because these guys were overloaded.

The most stupid thing is to buy boat for performance and suffer with less space and spend extra money, and then overload and be slower, hahahahah.

Boat will keep good sailing abilities until loaded no more than 50% of max load specified by manufacturer.

55ft performance cat will be happy with about 1.5T of stuff. Lagoon 400 around 2.5T, etc[/QUOTE]

[djw2477]

Ok my question is what is 50 % of max load capacity on a nautitech 40.2 Where do I find this out

[chris in SG]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

An orca core plus a nice 12.4" or 14.4" Samsung tablet with orca app (and some others like predict wind, victron VRM....) is all you need to steer and supervise the cat from every position that's comfortable and give you a good view. On 40ft you have too less space for a dedicated forward facing navstation and also not needed anymore. On long passages like ocean crossing I have a big paper chart on the salon table where I mark our position and a clear table cloth over it. So I need to just clean up that part of the table with the chart section I need, more then sufficent.

The N40 has a large oval table and a horseshoe of seats for a charter dinner party of 10 guests. I just took an angle grinder to one corner. It's the sort of mod that becomes less scary when the boat is 10 years old.

These are personal preferences - I hate relying on phone apps for monitoring anything. Phone batteries die, and wifi and bluetooth are weak links in my view, especially for alarms. But since this 'mobile' approach is increasingly becoming the standard (take Victron for example) I suppose I'm in the minority..

[lestersails]

Not a fan of the Nautitech helms at all. The dinky little bimini over the helm is pathetic - protects you from sun for about 15 minutes a day. Visibility of the opposite bow is bad. The boat we chartered only had nav on one of the two helms. They were marginal for a clear weather, relaxed Carib cruise for a week (chartered boat). I can't imagine how bad they would be in a blow. The remote control cabin thing is potentially a nice idea, but Murphy's law dictates that you won't be able to use it because of some electrical gremlin when you most don't want to be on that aft quarter. This is a perfectly fine boat for good weather coastal cruising. I wouldn't consider it even to cross from Florida to Bimini, much less to cross an ocean.

[dhenline]

I have a Nautitech 44 which is a bit longer than the 40. The 40 is fine for crossing and ocean. Many many have. The helms are some good and some bad. On average they probably are not as nice as the raised helms of lagoon etc. I dont mind them, However, two people can not sit side by side like most of the other cats can.

The outdoor living space on the 40 is great however.

don

[sv Stella Maris]

We have been at anchor and aboard both. Very different boat design platforms.

I would feel comfortable with either for passages.

***size restrictions: you had better be very small in stature to maneuver the mechanical spaces of the Nautitech 40. I am 6’2” and physically do NOT fit in some of the spaces. Yes, my boat-yoga is great…but spaces are what they are.

That said, so little equipment exists on the N40, and she sails in the lightest of winds when NOT overloaded.

Better resale with the more popular FP as a default…but I dig those N40’s…

Cheers.