My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

[u4ea32]

John, not poking fun at family. Like most people, I am only relating personal experiences, so others may learn. You also have lots of experience, I am only providing my own perspective.

The trips that cost 25% of the value of my Sunset Beach CA house per month (too many briefcases full of cash to run an IOR maxi) were far, far less fun than virtually free months on my much more enjoyable Santa Cruz 27.

I was so ready to dump wealth created from decades of business, until I again cut loose, went adventuring, and reminded myself of the magic of buckets of fresh rainwater from those ITCZ rain squalls.

Remind yourself of the beauty of sail, before burning those Benjamins. A lot of rare fortune was required for your fortune.

[robert sailor]

Lets face it cruising is not what it used to be and that's OK. The bulk of all cruisers today buy a boat, fill it to the gunnels with gear and equipment but don't go anywhere (long distance) The manufactures are very aware of this and they are producing boats both monos and cats that are set up for marina living or anchor living but not for crossing oceans.
Here in the Med we have met a number of boats coming from the Caribbean but most of them have been shipped at around a thousand dollars a foot or brought over by a delivery team.
Because of the demographics we have a very large number of people that are at or approaching retirement age (baby boomers) and many of these folks have a lot of money and are looking for a lifestyle change but have no interest in the discomfort of offshore sailing.
The manufacturers know this and continue to produce boats that are optimized for the intended use. That's why the explosion of cats and mono hulls that are getting wider and wider.

[u4ea32]

Totally agree with you, Robert.

Different people get different rewards from life. I was lucky enough to get enough monetary rewards from my leading edge technology businesses that I have not needed to make life choices based on money since I was a sophomore at University, and made enough to buy my house in an afternoon, or the other month where my "cottage" has its own zipcode. So for my entire adult life, I have had the flexibility to make choices on satisfaction: what makes me, my family, and my friends, happy.

On a spring skiing trip last year to Aspen, using the largest house in Aspen as the party pad, we had a hell of a lot of fun. But on the way back to LA, my wife and I found so many places that cost us zero dollars, where we awoke to perfect beauty of nature, far more artistic than the ski-in mansion with bowling alley, heated lawn so it stayed green in the winter, waterfall movie screen, waterfall garage door, sound track provide by live bands, ... Nature is amazing, and has no price. Its easy to throw thousands around in a bar, but I cannot make a flower.

[ka4wja]

Sorry guys, but I'm an intelligent, educated guy....with a good sense of humor....but I don't see much funny in your postings.....nor, to be honest, not anything of substance....





Huh????

Originally Posted by cwjohm

Poking fun at the attitude that we all have to live in past.

Who here suggested living in the past?? (I've made my living in high-tech electronics...)
Did you not click on the link and see my Nav Station??










I think the pictures speak for themselves....
C470 Projects by Boat Name

I do not live in the past...and I never suggested that anyone else should....
Rather, I was commenting on the number of things that those at a boat show will try to impress the boat show guests with....and adding my OPINION that many of those things/features are not necessities....they might be nice to have ("wants") but not "needs"...
And, where I voiced my opinion I specifically wrote opinion....
And, where I was joking / kidding / being a bit "tongue-in-cheek", etc. I denoted those with smiley faces ( ).....


So, you guys can go on arguing on your own....I'm unsubscribing...

Scarlet, you're doing GREAT!!!!
Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

[u4ea32]

I am sorry if my postings were taken the wrong way by anyone. I was trying to point out that sailing, and cruising, and enjoyment in general is quite distinct from how much money one spends.

The best things in my life are free. I imagine that is true for others, but perhaps I am mistaken. Again, please accept my apologies.

[Coops]

Congratulations sir. Brave post. Good job well done. Misunderstandings happen, it's how they get dealt with that matters.

Coops.

[JPA Cate]

This thread has gone a long way from a light review of the boat show">Miami boat show, and taken a turn into some realities (that you don't NEED all the junk, though you may WANT it), but I think k4wja has it nailed when he suggests that Scarlet and her good man keep an open mind as they see *stuff* and evaluate it. I would only add, to keep the critical function going, remember folks are wanting to sell you something, and it may be only a dream, so choose carefully about the bang for the buck you want for yourselves.

Ann

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by cwjohm

No you are not. Nor do you seem to understand the concept of SARCASM. If you did you would understand that I was totally disagreeing with u4ea32.

You know what, mate, sarcasm isn't humor. Sarcasm is a little "mordida", a little bite out of someone. It is sometimes thinly disguised aggression. Humor is funny; meanness isn't. FYI

In case this isn't clear enough, the unfriendly innuendoes made your posts uncomfortable to read.

Ann

[Coops]

To be fair, he was just word playing with a Monty Python sketch. If you are a fan of theirs, then you can see the humour, if not, it comes across wrong. As I stated in my last post, misunderstandings happen, that is all.

Coops.

[Teknav]

These posts are getting a bit hot; no need to get personal. Coconut ice cream anyone? It's home made, churned by hand and may contain an occasional harmless husk! Down the hatch!

Mauritz
Recipe NOT included!

[Southern Star]

Teknav, you are right - the posts are getting a bit hot. Scarlet, you are of course correct that boat shows are not only fun, but a good place to learn. And yes, you have asked good questions and appear to be both serious and sincere in your desire to learn and to become, in the relatively near future, a full-time liveaboard and cruiser. If people did not take you seriously, they would not be urging you to hold off on making conclusions based upon the Miami International Boat show and the boats you saw there.

I think the main concern that anyone had with your conclusions was that you would need ALOT more money. I referred to Mike and Rebecca and their website zero to cruising in part because I had hoped they would be an inspiration for you and your husband. I also referred to them because they chose to depart with a boat that was less than their dream boat, but nevertheless one that allowed them to fulfill their dreams.

I know that you understand that you will need to get experience on the water before you can make any firm decisions on what boat you will ultimately choose. My concern is that you are using a survey of new boats at the Miami boat show to assess how much money you will ultimately need in order to purchase a used boat in another 7 years.

There is no way to know how these boats will hold up after 7 years of use and whether or not some will turn out to have serious defects. Things like osmotic blistering often do not show up for a number of years.

There is also a tendancy at a show such as Miami to look at a boat that is likely outside of your budget (even after 7 years), but then to have that boat in mind when assessing other boats that may be within your budget. The less expensive ones are bound to come up wanting.

Please don't let your paradigm of a cruising cat make you believe that you will need ALOT more money than you had anticipated. Get out sailing. Kick the tires of some used boats that are priced in the range of what you believe you will be able to afford when you are ready to make the move. Yes, the boats that will actually be available in 7 years at a certain price point may be a bit different than today, but their relative condition and equipment inventories will not change that much. Put another way, I suspect that you will get much more relevant information about the market you will ultimately face by looking at used boats than by looking at new ones.

Remember, to a great extent the important thing is to get out there cruising and in the end, what you get out there cruising in matters very little.

Brad

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Thank your husband for his service and your support of him.

kind regards,

Awww.. thank you! I'm very very proud of his service as well...

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

My doctor and physical therapist BOTH said that the BEST thing i could do to help work out after I broke my leg skiing in 2009 (DON'T ski anymore, for those who do, I found 86.4% of my friends who said they did ended up breaking something. STOP right now) said:

The boat is the BEST therapy you can get. Great for my leg and muscles.

The damn doctors forgot about engine maintenance, but what the hell..

Yup! that's how he did it.. Skiing!! he works really hard at rehabilitation.. but, he will never be 100% anymore.. But, I think that being on a boat will really strengthen his leg...

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

The problem with boat shows is your perspective is all skewed. So much so, that nearly everyone who buys a boat at a show soon wants to sell for a huge discount after just a short time, sometimes just hours.

For example: motion. Sure, your house does not move. Your car moves oh so smoothly. Then stay ashore. Boats move. Its the ancient interface. Its fundamental to the experience of being on a boat. Multihulls move around A LOT at sea. A LOT! If you don't like it, you will just feel barfy until you sell your boat CHEAP.

For example: there is absolutely a very, very strong NEGATIVE correlation between the cost of the boat and your enjoyment owning the boat. If you think you need to spend more to enjoy, you will be yet another of the masses who very soon sell your new boat CHEAP.

Before you do something silly and very, very expensive: just go sailing. On anything. With anyone, anywhere. But go. For awhile: weeks at a very minimum, six months far better. Think you can't afford to go off sailing for six months just to get an attitude adjustment? Buying a boat WITHOUT that attitude adjustment will cost you more than you can imagine today, a shocking amount that will affect you in a very personal, deep, and unforgettable manner. Consider all the expensive new boats just sitting in marinas near you, across the country, around the world... And compare those thousands with the very few that actually sail, that get used, that look happily worn out...

hmmmmmm...... BUZZZ KILL!!!!!!!!

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

Teknav, you are right - the posts are getting a bit hot. Scarlet, you are of course correct that boat shows are not only fun, but a good place to learn. And yes, you have asked good questions and appear to be both serious and sincere in your desire to learn and to become, in the relatively near future, a full-time liveaboard and cruiser. If people did not take you seriously, they would not be urging you to hold off on making conclusions based upon the Miami International Boat show and the boats you saw there.

I think the main concern that anyone had with your conclusions was that you would need ALOT more money. I referred to Mike and Rebecca and their website zero to cruising in part because I had hoped they would be an inspiration for you and your husband. I also referred to them because they chose to depart with a boat that was less than their dream boat, but nevertheless one that allowed them to fulfill their dreams.

I know that you understand that you will need to get experience on the water before you can make any firm decisions on what boat you will ultimately choose. My concern is that you are using a survey of new boats at the Miami boat show to assess how much money you will ultimately need in order to purchase a used boat in another 7 years.

There is no way to know how these boats will hold up after 7 years of use and whether or not some will turn out to have serious defects. Things like osmotic blistering often do not show up for a number of years.

There is also a tendancy at a show such as Miami to look at a boat that is likely outside of your budget (even after 7 years), but then to have that boat in mind when assessing other boats that may be within your budget. The less expensive ones are bound to come up wanting.

Please don't let your paradigm of a cruising cat make you believe that you will need ALOT more money than you had anticipated. Get out sailing. Kick the tires of some used boats that are priced in the range of what you believe you will be able to afford when you are ready to make the move. Yes, the boats that will actually be available in 7 years at a certain price point may be a bit different than today, but their relative condition and equipment inventories will not change that much. Put another way, I suspect that you will get much more relevant information about the market you will ultimately face by looking at used boats than by looking at new ones.

Remember, to a great extent the important thing is to get out there cruising and in the end, what you get out there cruising in matters very little.

Brad

Thanks! I needed that.. seriously! I guess I wasn't thinking so much about the cost of the boat.. as I was the cost of the lifestyle... talking with people about maintainance, and mooring.. and insurance... and all the "stuff" (necessary, or unnecessary).. it's all expensive. Even the ROPES are expensive.

We were looking at things that I consider necessities.. such as, a good safe dingy... (they are pretty expensive.. and that doesn't include the motor!!) other safety items.. such as an inflatable raft.. or decent PFD's... Or, for me.. a washing machine is a deal breaker! but, wow... they are 3 times the price of the "top of the line" one I have at home.. OUTRAGEOUS!

We were talking with one guy who was selling nice first aid kits. I asked him how much.. and he said "nineteen ninety five"... I was like COOL! finally something reasonably priced!! and then he explained that it was $1995.00!!! and NOT $19.95!!

DO NOT LAUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway... one more thing.. You guys can get really serious around here... just a reminder... this is supposed to be FUN!!!