My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

[senormechanico]

There are some good points in this thread, but you have to dig for them.


FORD ! CHEVY! FORD !!! CHEVY !!!!

[RoadRacer]

WOW!! On to five pages and not one "condomaran" or "mono-hole" modifier dropped.....I guess that's progress of sorts?!

[SteveSadler]

I agree Jim. Reasons boats capsize is a subject all sailors need to know. Apparently they are similar for both monos and multis. Lets redirect the thread to Nevillecats original idea and lets learn the causes of each capsize. To start with, most occur in surfing conditions downwind in large seas. Many stories describe surfing a wave and burying the bow in the wave in front. The breaking wave then pushes the boat further down while the stern raises up on the crest. The momentum of the stern still going 10 15kts carries it over the bow and we are now capsized. Prevention? Drouges droges and more drouges. They work quite well to prevent surfing, maintain steerage, and keeping speed to a managable level.

[Mr B]

My 34 foot long Cat and 14 feet wide beam can definately flip over sideways,
I almost did it,

With 7 weeks sailing experience on any yacht or sailing mono,
So it was trial and error on the way home,
I do have over 50 years experience on motor boats, Turn the key and go where you want to, Simple,
My Plan B was hire a Captain and get him to sail it back, and learn on the way,
My Plan C, Drive it home on the diesel, At 7 knots, Island hopping for Diesel, Thats not a problem in the slightest,

Autopilot on, 1 foot of Genoa out, Dragging the drive leg thru the water, About 3 knots,
I get a good nights sleep, With one eye half open,

Both centreboards down,
The centre boards down keep the boat straight and the Autopilot dosent grind away hard,

When the centre boards are up, Autopilot grinds very noisily, and my boat skips all over the ocean,
It wont go in a straight line,
This is learning as I go,
Trying different things,
There is no one to ask in the middle of the Ocean,

10 PM, Im am snoozing in the salon, I dont think I will ever be able to deep sleep on a moving boat, Single handed,

Any way, The autopilot dropped out, Putting me instantly beam on to the waves,
The sudden jerk had me in the cockpit instantly,

I am at about 70 degrees, sideways,
Same angle as the ladders I have stood on for the last 50 years, Construction worker,
I do know what 70 Degrees is,

Spun the wheel hoping I was going in the right direction, Down the wave,
It didnt matter up or down the wave,
But Beam on, was a No No,

One of the few times I thought it was scary,

What had happened is the Leeward Centre board dug in and the boat wouldnt slide down the wave,
Trial and error the next day on the same large waves, After I changed my Jocks,

Windward side centre board works best at about a third down, Autopilot loves it, It just steers with out noises, And stays in a straight line,

Leeward side centre board, Digs in, Beam on, no matter how much is down,
Lesson learned, Leeside board stays up all the time,

Interesting to note, That most inverted Cats I have seen Piccys off, have had both boards down,
Whether, Dagger Boards, Centreboards or Fixed Keels,

I have seen on other Forums where people are advised to keep both boards down in heavy seas and high waves,

This is my boat and what it does,
What your boat does, May be entirely different,

Cheers, Brian,
PS; I have done 3000 Nmiles in this boat, And loved it,

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Paul Howard

One can wreck, capsize, incapacitate any boat. Catamarans, trimarans or monohulls.
I am now sailing my second catamaran, with 20 years and 70,000miles of catamaran sailing from north of the Arctic Circle to south around Cape Horn.
It is largely a matter of seamanship, knowing your boat and being cautious and sailing in the correct seasons.

That is true, a good sailor can sail a dinghy across the ocean... but that doesn’t make a dinghy the best choice for world cruiser.

I’m told I need to make my point more often as many reading this don’t know it yet: the best option... for blue water world cruisers is... any boat 50’ long and up! Doesn’t matter if it’s a mono or multi, they all do great. But pick one to match your capability. A 50’ Halberg Rassy is very different from a 50’ Chris White. One can always argue over size and I’ll admit that 47’ in most cases work as well, but at 45’ you’re definitely into compromise territory. Is that bad? No, you just have to be a better sailor to sail it anywhere you want

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That is true, a good sailor can sail a dinghy across the ocean... but that doesn’t make a dinghy the best choice for world cruiser.

I’m told I need to make my point more often as many reading this don’t know it yet: the best option... for blue water world cruisers is... any boat 50’ long and up! Doesn’t matter if it’s a mono or multi, they all do great. But pick one to match your capability. A 50’ Halberg Rassy is very different from a 50’ Chris White. One can always argue over size and I’ll admit that 47’ in most cases work as well, but at 45’ you’re definitely into compromise territory. Is that bad? No, you just have to be a better sailor to sail it anywhere you want

This, I agree with.

[conchaway]

Upon being castigated by the forum police, I will not have anything negative further to say about catamarans and capsizing.
Therefore, go for it! Get that Cat! Sail it into the tempest! May God have mercy on your soul! 10-7.

[Taipe]

Originally Posted by Chotu

As an owner of one of these sorts of boats, it's my first choice in that once in a lifetime storm. Bare poles, boards and rudders up out of the water. Get in your bunk and wait it out. Not much more survivability than that.

However, getting capsized by a gust is an issue that needs looking into.

To that I would add: deploy the drogue with anti-chafe gear off the stern and then bring out the storm curtains for the sea berths!

[senormechanico]

As a comparison of multi's vs monos in sink vs flip.

A Formula I car can out accelerate and out corner most street cars.

Their performance is amazing, but don't even think about tangling tires with another one.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Taipe

To that I would add: deploy the drogue with anti-chafe gear off the stern and then bring out the storm curtains for the sea berths!

Agreed! I was just too lazy to type the whole thing on my phone. Ha ha.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Mr B

My 34 foot long Cat and 14 feet wide beam can definately flip over sideways,
I almost did it,

With 7 weeks sailing experience on any yacht or sailing mono,
So it was trial and error on the way home,
I do have over 50 years experience on motor boats, Turn the key and go where you want to, Simple,
My Plan B was hire a Captain and get him to sail it back, and learn on the way,
My Plan C, Drive it home on the diesel, At 7 knots, Island hopping for Diesel, Thats not a problem in the slightest,

Autopilot on, 1 foot of Genoa out, Dragging the drive leg thru the water, About 3 knots,
I get a good nights sleep, With one eye half open,

Both centreboards down,
The centre boards down keep the boat straight and the Autopilot dosent grind away hard,

When the centre boards are up, Autopilot grinds very noisily, and my boat skips all over the ocean,
It wont go in a straight line,
This is learning as I go,
Trying different things,
There is no one to ask in the middle of the Ocean,

10 PM, Im am snoozing in the salon, I dont think I will ever be able to deep sleep on a moving boat, Single handed,

Any way, The autopilot dropped out, Putting me instantly beam on to the waves,
The sudden jerk had me in the cockpit instantly,

I am at about 70 degrees, sideways,
Same angle as the ladders I have stood on for the last 50 years, Construction worker,
I do know what 70 Degrees is,

Spun the wheel hoping I was going in the right direction, Down the wave,
It didnt matter up or down the wave,
But Beam on, was a No No,

One of the few times I thought it was scary,

What had happened is the Leeward Centre board dug in and the boat wouldnt slide down the wave,
Trial and error the next day on the same large waves, After I changed my Jocks,

Windward side centre board works best at about a third down, Autopilot loves it, It just steers with out noises, And stays in a straight line,

Leeward side centre board, Digs in, Beam on, no matter how much is down,
Lesson learned, Leeside board stays up all the time,

Interesting to note, That most inverted Cats I have seen Piccys off, have had both boards down,
Whether, Dagger Boards, Centreboards or Fixed Keels,

I have seen on other Forums where people are advised to keep both boards down in heavy seas and high waves,

This is my boat and what it does,
What your boat does, May be entirely different,

Cheers, Brian,
PS; I have done 3000 Nmiles in this boat, And loved it,

A Big Huge Thank You to the first poster on this thread who contributed something I can understand and use, if I ever get that type of cat. To the rest of you with few of the usual exceptions, I say your combativeness really does go against the spirit of the OP's post and is useless on this forum and I'm sorry I had to read through all your drivel to get to this one great post.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by waterman46

A Big Huge Thank You to the first poster on this thread who contributed something I can understand and use, if I ever get that type of cat. To the rest of you with few of the usual exceptions, I say your combativeness really does go against the spirit of the OP's post and is useless on this forum and I'm sorry I had to read through all your drivel to get to this one great post.

The premise of the thread is naive and simplistic. Responses like yours don't help and only fan the flames; you're part of the problem here.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by tp12

The premise of the thread is naive and simplistic. Responses like yours don't help and only fan the flames; you're part of the problem here.

...and Bang! In one short post you have just managed to piss off not only the OP and the previous poster but everyone who will read this (possibly even for the next few years) in the hope they might learn something to help keep their kids safe.
Sure the post was a bit snarky but entirely justified as it relates perfectly to the title of the thread. A response was not required.

Thanks to those who have given detailed responses involving their direct experience. Please be assured that they are appreciated even if it doesn't always seem so.

[Fore and Aft]

It’s funny reading all these posts, it sort of reminds me of a Jehovah witness knocking on your door and trying to make you see the light. Except now you guys do not need to knock on my door, you just appear in my inbox.
I have met 44Cruising Cat and he is a hell of a nice guy, he certainly did’nt try and convert me to being a cat lover nor did he rave on how good they were.
I think people have to stand back and disregard some cat capsizes. That cat capsize with XL2 on the NSW coast sounds more like a bunch of guys flogging the hell out of a race boat rather than a design fault.
Cheers

[tp12]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

...and Bang! In one short post you have just managed to piss off not only the OP and the previous poster but everyone who will read this (possibly even for the next few years) in the hope they might learn something to help keep their kids safe.
Sure the post was a bit snarky but entirely justified as it relates perfectly to the title of the thread. A response was not required.

Thanks to those who have given detailed responses involving their direct experience. Please be assured that they are appreciated even if it doesn't always seem so.

Another sanctimonious post from you. Your premise is naive and you're claiming to speak for quite a lot of people there, an obvious overreach. Instead of getting fired up why don't you consider why it's naive, I've already said why above, so I won't repeat it.

I can't respect the idea of addressing symptoms, even if it's done in a respectful way, which this isn't. Fix the root cause or accept that there will always be conflict on this subject.

I mean even after this discussion we've had one poster getting sore about the mods getting involved and coming on to whine and another poster comparing 'multis' to F1 cars. I don't know about you but I don't look at Lagoons and think F1 cars, you know. It's just silly.