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Old 08-10-2019, 14:49   #91
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
Thanks Mr B, I appreciate you sharing your experience.
No Probs, Im here to learn, I can only speak about my own experiences,

I did try sailing on racing J boats at Sandringham Y/C,
But that is totally different sailing to what I do on a cruising Catamaran,
Its not even close or compareable,

I was very dissapointed with it, As I was hoping to learn lots from the experience on the J boats,

They are very nice boats, But,
Skinny cockpit, Not much room, Very Cramped up, Six people sitting in the cockpit, Max, 3 each side, You know what a crowd is, Hahahaha, Shoulder to shoulder, Knee to Knee, Your totally exposed to the elements, And you get wet,
And they are a lot of work involved to change course,
You cant walk around on one, There just isnt the room,

Im only 14 feet wide, But I can sit 8 people in my cockpit comfortably and still walk around in it, Another 6 seated comfortably in the Salon same level as the cockpit, Another three people sitting on the hammock on the transom, Also under cover,

And I never get wet, rain or waves,

You just cant compare a Mono to a Multi sail boat, They are just two totally different animals,
Other than driven by the wind, Thats where the similarity ends,
Its like comparing my dinghy to an ocean liner,

With the right crap conditions, Both will sink, Hahahaha
So keep the shiny side up,

Cheers, Brian,
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Old 08-10-2019, 16:58   #92
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
No Probs, Im here to learn, I can only speak about my own experiences,

I did try sailing on racing J boats at Sandringham Y/C,
But that is totally different sailing to what I do on a cruising Catamaran,
Its not even close or compareable,

I was very dissapointed with it, As I was hoping to learn lots from the experience on the J boats,

They are very nice boats, But,
Skinny cockpit, Not much room, Very Cramped up, Six people sitting in the cockpit, Max, 3 each side, You know what a crowd is, Hahahaha, Shoulder to shoulder, Knee to Knee, Your totally exposed to the elements, And you get wet,
And they are a lot of work involved to change course,
You cant walk around on one, There just isnt the room,

Im only 14 feet wide, But I can sit 8 people in my cockpit comfortably and still walk around in it, Another 6 seated comfortably in the Salon same level as the cockpit, Another three people sitting on the hammock on the transom, Also under cover,

And I never get wet, rain or waves,

You just cant compare a Mono to a Multi sail boat, They are just two totally different animals,
Other than driven by the wind, Thats where the similarity ends,
Its like comparing my dinghy to an ocean liner,

With the right crap conditions, Both will sink, Hahahaha
So keep the shiny side up,

Cheers, Brian,
I can compare my experience on main on a Sydney 36 CR mono compared to trimming the main on 44c's boat. I tended to tighten it up too much, more sheet on etc than Alan was and soon learned that it was quicker a bit more open, even pointing to 30'. The main on 44c is a cruising laminate that's got 9'ish years of cruising on it and the S36 has a racing laminate that we've raced all year round inshore and offshore for 6'ish years so.

44c's boat pointed just as high as our raceboat and in light winds, with only white sails up, was a bit faster and would be much more with an A sail up. When the breeze picked up, and also off the wind, 44c can reach speeds we could only dream of. You'd expect that, from a 44' performance cruiser cat VS a 36' cruiser racer mono. We've also done a few mods over the years on that mono and had a consistent crew for 3 years so I think we were getting a lot out of the boat and sails.
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Old 08-10-2019, 18:47   #93
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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I can compare my experience on main on a Sydney 36 CR mono compared to trimming the main on 44c's boat. I tended to tighten it up too much, more sheet on etc than Alan was and soon learned that it was quicker a bit more open, even pointing to 30'. The main on 44c is a cruising laminate that's got 9'ish years of cruising on it and the S36 has a racing laminate that we've raced all year round inshore and offshore for 6'ish years so.

44c's boat pointed just as high as our raceboat and in light winds, with only white sails up, was a bit faster and would be much more with an A sail up. When the breeze picked up, and also off the wind, 44c can reach speeds we could only dream of. You'd expect that, from a 44' performance cruiser cat VS a 36' cruiser racer mono. We've also done a few mods over the years on that mono and had a consistent crew for 3 years so I think we were getting a lot out of the boat and sails.
There you go, Im not a sailor, Far from it, All that went straight over my head,
I can sail mine, comfortably and safely, Thats all I have to do,
I use only the Genoa on mine, It needs 3 knots of wind to be moving,
12 knots of wind, Im doing around 9 knots on the GPS,
Wind coming from the side, What ever thats called,
At 12 to 14 knots, My boat is scorching along, Its fun, But its a worry, Things can go horribly wrong at that speed very quickly, Thats why I keep it under 10 knots,

I have ropes hanging out of every where, Boom and Mast, No Idea on what their called either,
I have three ropes on the Genoa, One to wind it in, Self Furler,
Two on the Clew, I think its called, The bottom hole on the flappy end of it,
One rope comes down each side of the boat, So I can put the Genoa out on each side of the boat, depending on which way the wind is blowing from,
Both of these ropes run thru a movable pulley half way along my hulls,
I seem to have got the best position for them just from moving them backwards and forwards as I was sailing along,
The tell tails are horizontal on the Genoa, So I suppose its in the right position,

The only rope I worry about is the Backstay from the top of the mast to the transom, I keep that one just firm, Its to counter the drag or force from the Genoa on the top of the mast, It stops the mast from flexing,
My Engineering back ground states this, But I could be wrong on that too,
But you would need a good reason for me to change my mind on it,
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Old 08-10-2019, 19:34   #94
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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There you go, Im not a sailor, Far from it, All that went straight over my head,
I can sail mine, comfortably and safely, Thats all I have to do,
I use only the Genoa on mine, It needs 3 knots of wind to be moving,
12 knots of wind, Im doing around 9 knots on the GPS,
Wind coming from the side, What ever thats called,
At 12 to 14 knots, My boat is scorching along, Its fun, But its a worry, Things can go horribly wrong at that speed very quickly, Thats why I keep it under 10 knots,

I have ropes hanging out of every where, Boom and Mast, No Idea on what their called either,
I have three ropes on the Genoa, One to wind it in, Self Furler,
Two on the Clew, I think its called, The bottom hole on the flappy end of it,
One rope comes down each side of the boat, So I can put the Genoa out on each side of the boat, depending on which way the wind is blowing from,
Both of these ropes run thru a movable pulley half way along my hulls,
I seem to have got the best position for them just from moving them backwards and forwards as I was sailing along,
The tell tails are horizontal on the Genoa, So I suppose its in the right position,

The only rope I worry about is the Backstay from the top of the mast to the transom, I keep that one just firm, Its to counter the drag or force from the Genoa on the top of the mast, It stops the mast from flexing,
My Engineering back ground states this, But I could be wrong on that too,
But you would need a good reason for me to change my mind on it,
Mate, it's only lingo. What counts is knowing how to sail the boat and you've got that covered. I'd rather be able to sail and not know the lingo than know the lingo but not how to sail.

Gaining experience will help with feeling more comfortable pushing the boat but I reckon you're going about it the right way and staying in your comfort zone. She seems to get along pretty well just now anyway and as long as you're enjoying yourself you're winning.
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Old 08-10-2019, 22:37   #95
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Mate, it's only lingo. What counts is knowing how to sail the boat and you've got that covered. I'd rather be able to sail and not know the lingo than know the lingo but not how to sail.

Gaining experience will help with feeling more comfortable pushing the boat but I reckon you're going about it the right way and staying in your comfort zone. She seems to get along pretty well just now anyway and as long as you're enjoying yourself you're winning.
I certainly am enjoying my little boat, Its the safest boat Ive ever been on,
Experience and Perception cover a very broad range,

Scorching along at 12 to 14 knots and the rooster tails high out the back, Its Fun but scary at the same time,
Maybe I am too aware of what can go wrong, So i keep the speed down,

Tony Smith, The builder of these boats, Got 24 knots on his, crossing the North Atlantic to deliver one too England,
Thats just not me, hahahaha


Scorching along at 40 or 50 knots on a big Ski or Speed boat is very different,
Cant this lump of crap go any faster, I thing we need a bigger motor or two,,
That sort of speed I can handle, Its also great fun,
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:38   #96
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My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

What a fun thread to read! FWIW, After lots and lots of catamaran sailing, I choose a Tom Colvin steel 5’ draft schooner for family cruising. Though, a wharram in aluminum would be attractive.
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Old 09-10-2019, 20:37   #97
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

here you go; it's already in Tahiti

NZ$. been for sale for ages though.
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:40   #98
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Also on dead downwind the genoa is too close to the boom to be efficient, we close haul the genoa first and use the obsolete winward sheet attaching it with a hitch on the midships clew on lee and then easiyng the genua sheet on the winch, so the genua is all way out attached to the clew. You can sail for days in that configuration without adjustments.

To release it safely, just close haul it with the winch and remove the second sheet from the clew.
We also do this, it makes a big difference and is easy to set up and remove.
I am quite happy just using the Genoa downwind when the wind gets up. A lot easier to control and reduce sail than the main.
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Old 19-01-2020, 14:42   #99
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Very well said.

Your comments regarding "it often comes down to individual boats" I agree is regularly forgotten, just goes straight to cats vs monos forgetting theres so many variations in between. My 47 mono is a completely different beast while passage making than my 32 foot mono was, non comparable, it's also non comparable to the 31ft Wharram I once had.

Your comment "it's the journey not the destination " rings true for me as well BUT I want to be as comfortable as I can during the journey.

I find the most important factor is the sailor and not the boat. I was discussing my plans to go out for a sail around the harbor with a reef in the main because there were small craft warnings up, and my friend asked "What is a small craft?" Before I could answer a far more timid friend answered "Anything that does not have a casino on board". I respect his point of view because it is correct for him. Regarding the issue of Monohull or Multihull try having one of each. $$$
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Old 19-01-2020, 17:47   #100
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Well done Mr C , you have just earn't yourself #2 position on my ignore list.
Hi catty, Please Tell me Im still #1, I would hate to lose that badge of honour.
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Old 19-01-2020, 19:08   #101
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

Who is Mr C, ????????
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Old 19-01-2020, 22:37   #102
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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I realise that, as the popularity of cats explodes, this will naturally lead to a corresponding increase in the likelihood of such events, but also multihull design, (and the understanding of how and why capsize happens) has moved on accordingly, and so we would hope, some attempt at mitigation of the danger.
Great topic. We're contemplating a monohull to multihull transition (maybe a few years from now), and the capsizing theme is certainly interesting.

I think it is (or should be) in the interest of the manufacturers and dealers to counter rumours with solid information and guides-- and I guess they do.

This post from Sail Wildling (Outremer 5X) talks about Outremer's "reefing plan" and offers some load calculations mainly relating to rig strength: https://sailwildling.com/2016/05/16/...h-is-too-much/

Each boat is an individual, obviously, and weather, wind, waves create quite a dynamic (perhaps chaotic) environment.

Still, I assume the designers model/simulate different extremes and it would be good to get more data about exactly where (for a particular boat) the tipping points might be.
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