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Old 06-10-2019, 20:31   #31
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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He owns two. Plus a dinghy. And an RV


Even a Jedi with expert knowledge sometimes needs some help with reading comprehension. Let me help you with a screenshot!Click image for larger version

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Now does the Slug actually own a boat?
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Old 06-10-2019, 20:33   #32
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Good Lord, I was already a bit disappointed with just a sideways snarky but funny remark instead of a full battle mode reply but look here there’s the real stuff like I knew you could produce

I think I can actually find some to agree with here, like the harsh truth in the last paragraph that I included in my quote above. That must be it, idiots must buy a monohull because a multi is too complex for them

But that first part, not correct at all mate first is that my comments, even though sometimes camouflaged with some tongue in cheek parts, always have expert knowledge at the base. Remember, I reached expert level even before I started cruising Jedi 17 years ago

I must admit that I never owned a multihull, but my rigging is like one and don’t forget that the Sundeers have the catamaran spirit inside them (check Steve Dashew history to learn how so).

Then we getto my second disagreement: I have sailed plenty cats, been aboard many more and some of our best friends own cats or tris. Here’s a link to one friend, Henk de Velde, who is actually a famous expert multihull sailor about flipping them and about recommending no-flip devices just like I always do. This clearly shows that such comments from me are in line with consensus among other experts and better to be taken seriously, before you find yourself flipped over. Which, down under, would be right side up but I won’t go there again because I got almost kicked last time I tried to explain that
Anyway, here’s the link: https://www.henkdevelde.com/go/index...izing-english/
What makes you think I was talking about you? Are you saying that you frequently post ignorant drivel?
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Old 06-10-2019, 20:33   #33
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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[...]before you find yourself flipped over. Which, down under, would be right side up but I won’t go there again because I got almost kicked last time I tried to explain that
Apologies for quoting myself but I just realized that I could find that in my naughty forum infractions archive and that these posts still exist... and one can never be punished for something twice, right?

Anyway, here’s how a cat sails flipped over down under: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post897954
and here’s the one with the animated GIF that got me kicked because it flashed a naughty word that starts with an f Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity - Page 19 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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Old 06-10-2019, 20:38   #34
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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What makes you think I was talking about you? Are you saying that you frequently post ignorant drivel?
may be I got the thought because you were quoting me in your post?

Besides, you didn’t even read it or you would’ve known my posts are always expert level
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Old 06-10-2019, 20:50   #35
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

^^^^^

Sigh..... Neville cat, I think that your quest is hopeless. Maybe divert to some other holy grail?

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Old 06-10-2019, 20:53   #36
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Thanks for the link. From my reading it appears to me that Henk isn't entirely sold on anti capsize devices, although he might fit one to his current race boat.

From what I read, I'm not so sure he feels they are as neccessary as you suggest either:

"
I have (since?) sailed 6 times around the world. 5 times in a multihull, four times on a cat, one time with a tri. I never had the feeling it would happen again although I admit that sometimes I was thinking, “if it’s to happen, it could happen now”, especially in some very bad weather in the Southern Ocean, with 72 knots of sustained wind and 40-50 ft waves."

Anyway, there are simpler, inexpensive options. A simple Spectra "fuse" between mainsheet and boom, that will fail at a given load. It doesn't have to completely release the boom either (which might be dangerous) but simply leting out a couple of feet would greatly depower the sail.
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Old 06-10-2019, 20:55   #37
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Even a Jedi with expert knowledge sometimes needs some help with reading comprehension. Let me help you with a screenshot!Attachment 201053
Now does the Slug actually own a boat?
I’m sorry, it’s hard to keep up with who all is being slugged where; you guys are on to slugging the next one in the blink of an eye
but, he did have a cat, right?
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Old 06-10-2019, 21:05   #38
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Thanks for the link. From my reading it appears to me that Henk isn't entirely sold on anti capsize devices, although he might fit one to his current race boat.

From what I read, I'm not so sure he feels they are as neccessary as you suggest either:

"
I have (since?) sailed 6 times around the world. 5 times in a multihull, four times on a cat, one time with a tri. I never had the feeling it would happen again although I admit that sometimes I was thinking, “if it’s to happen, it could happen now”, especially in some very bad weather in the Southern Ocean, with 72 knots of sustained wind and 40-50 ft waves."

Anyway, there are simpler, inexpensive options. A simple Spectra "fuse" between mainsheet and boom, that will fail at a given load. It doesn't have to completely release the boom either (which might be dangerous) but simply leting out a couple of feet would greatly depower the sail.
True, but for sake of simplicity, I take his idea for a fuse as just another no-flip device. The reason for having something, anything, to automatically prevent flipping, is because his experience of a bunch of expert multihull sailors, plenty hands on deck, hand steering, time to release the sheet, but nobody did... and they flipped. How is an amateur to release the sheets when the pro’s can’t? And why not have these? It’s a matter of time before the insurance companies learn and will make them mandatory. My design of anti-flip device would have had negatives (tri ama’s bolted to a cat) but these are much more compact and cheaper as well
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Old 06-10-2019, 21:07   #39
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Ou

The reality is cat owners get pissed off by the constant posting of ignorant drivel in the multihull forum, by posters who have never owned, sailed, or even been on a multihull.

I think most of us are quite happy with our choice. Happy enough that we don't feel the need to constantly deride other people's choice. Unlike some.

And of course if any of us ever wanted to take the step back into a mono, it would be very easy financially. Given that demand (and prices)for cat's are so high, and for mono's so low, many are being given away.

I think we too generally accept that if we stuff up badly enough it will hurt.

I'd even go so far as to accept monohulls are probably more idiot proof. So for some, they're likely a better choice.
100%

And here they all come again trying to defend their bias.
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Old 06-10-2019, 21:31   #40
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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If I had to pick a vessel to handle a big storm in it would be as you say, a cat with dagger boards ,nothing to trip over, I remember Wharram talking about this years ago and it has stuck in my mind, slide ,dont trip.

What surprises me is a number of multis have gone away from this. I stood next to a new 45 Leapord on the hard at Trinidad a couple of days ago, the draft was just under 6 foot, I feel the mini keels give you the something to trip over rather than slide. It certainly was not shallow draft.
Couldn't agree more. It's my personal choice as to ultimate bad weather survival.
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Old 06-10-2019, 22:24   #41
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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^^^^^

Sigh..... Neville cat, I think that your quest is hopeless. Maybe divert to some other holy grail?

Jim
Jim you are very restrained...me I'm more like.....
OMG WILL YOU PUERILE BICKERING SCHOOLGIRLS SHUT THE F*** UP

I am truly shocked and saddened by how quickly the whole point of this post was ignored and derailed!

Can I please make one last request to the gentlemen involved (surely you know who you are) to try and restrain themselves and use their experience and wisdom for good instead of evil.
Given the popularity of catamarans and the popularity of newbies buying them to sail into the sunset, your combined experience and helpful advice could potentially save lives!
Thanks to those who have made thoughtful contributions.
Neville
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Old 06-10-2019, 22:31   #42
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Jim you are very restrained...me I'm more like.....
OMG WILL YOU PUERILE BICKERING SCHOOLGIRLS SHUT THE F*** UP

I am truly shocked and saddened by how quickly the whole point of this post was ignored and derailed!

Can I please make one last request to the gentlemen involved (surely you know who you are) to try and restrain themselves and use their experience and wisdom for good instead of evil.
Given the popularity of catamarans and the popularity of newbies buying them to sail into the sunset, your combined experience and helpful advice could potentially save lives!
Thanks to those who have made thoughtful contributions.
Neville
That is pretty sanctimonious, Neville.

The reality here is that there is plenty of bias against multis and lots of misrepresentation with mono guys coming in and talking rubbish. That's the root cause of this; you're only addressing a symptom. You're not going to get agreement here so you may as well save your breath and keyboard.

When the bias stops the reactions to that bias will stop and not before. Until then, take your own advice
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Old 06-10-2019, 23:12   #43
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Unhappy Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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That is pretty sanctimonious, Neville.

The reality here is that there is plenty of bias against multis and lots of misrepresentation with mono guys coming in and talking rubbish. That's the root cause of this; you're only addressing a symptom. You're not going to get agreement here so you may as well save your breath and keyboard.

When the bias stops the reactions to that bias will stop and not before. Until then, take your own advice
Ok, perhaps that came across as sanctimonious but that was the point of the thread.
That maybe we need to dig deeper in order to not make these kind of pre-programmed responses?
It would be more pleasant if one could follow through a thread without have to constantly be drawn into a sniping tournament.
Amongst all that there is usually some good advice from some seasoned experienced sailors; It would be valuable to have them stay on the forum and contribute but the temptation, understandably, is to turn off, if the threads constantly devolve.
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Old 06-10-2019, 23:13   #44
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

[QUOTE=NevilleCat;299155
Thanks to those who have made thoughtful contributions.
Neville[/QUOTE]

You're entirely welcome.
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Old 06-10-2019, 23:21   #45
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Re: My Multihull sail brothers please stop being so Defensive

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Ok, perhaps that came across as sanctimonious but that was the point of the thread.
That maybe we need to dig deeper in order to not make these kind of pre-programmed responses?
It would be more pleasant if one could follow through a thread without have to constantly be drawn into a sniping tournament.
Amongst all that there is usually some good advice from some seasoned experienced sailors; It would be valuable to have them stay on the forum and contribute but the temptation, understandably, is to turn off, if the threads constantly devolve.
Perhaps?! Crikey.....

Getting sanctimonious and telling people to STFU is supposed to be helpful? Mate, you're doing it wrong.

It's really not going to go away. You're right though, I've found some very knowledgeable and experienced multi sailors who won't come back to this forum because of that bias and the bollocks that goes on with it.

Treat the root cause and the problem just goes away. Telling people not to react to that isn't going to work. It might for a short time but then people are going to get sick of it, and the hypocrisy, and say something.
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