Mini scuba tanks instead of escape hatches?

[riki]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Best position to wait for rescue is in a liferaft tethered to the underside of the bridgedeck, adjacent to the escape hatches.

This is a very wrong advice, once liferaft is deployed and everybody onboard, you should cut any connection with the vessel.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by riki

This is a very wrong advice, once liferaft is deployed and everybody onboard, you should cut any connection with the vessel.

I was told to remain tethered until the vessel sinks.

A floating wreck is more visible to rescuers than a life laft.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

I was told to remain tethered until the vessel sinks.

A floating wreck is more visible to rescuers than a life laft.

I think the question here is whether to board the liferaft or not. Plenty of cases where the vessel was found but the crew and liferaft were not (or not soon enough). So yes, stay with the vessel as long as possible, but cut the tether once you get into the raft. I think it all very much depends on the situation.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Rorzech

Why does everyone think the cat is going to sink when it's upside down. A person should take the time to get their bearings then make a good plan that is made to coincide with your circumstances . There is probably a storm or big waves outside. You should stay inside because you are not going to sink right away. You can stay inside until it light out and is save to go out, You should make a tether to keep you to the boat and have a knife to cut it incase of emergency. If you relax and take a half an hour to think of a good plan you won't need any goofy tanks that can kill you in a minute. Just use your head.

I think if you read my other posts I have said repeatedly pretty much what your saying, that you have time.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

I think the question here is whether to board the liferaft or not. Plenty of cases where the vessel was found but the crew and liferaft were not (or not soon enough). So yes, stay with the vessel as long as possible, but cut the tether once you get into the raft. I think it all very much depends on the situation.

With a catamaran that is afloat there is no need to cut the tether. As pointed out above, an upturned catamaran is a much more visible target than a life raft on its own. And the life raft will likely be more comfortable than the upturned, awash hulls.

If the catamaran were to lose flotation it will happen very slowly and there will be plenty of time to cut free.

On the other hand, a keel ballasted monohull can sink very quickly and that’s where the advice to cut the tether as soon as getting into the liferaft comes from. The saying “you should only ever step up into a liferaft” applies to sinking monohulls - it generally doesn’t make any sense for catamarans.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

I don't see how they would help in the event of an engine or galley fire...

They’re (escape hatches, correct?) only for overturned escape out of or return back into the hulls. Other than for ventilation in calm anchorages or berths they’re not for use when the boat is upright.

If fire then likely the boat is still upright and all the other hatches will be easier to use to get out.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by riki

This is a very wrong advice, once liferaft is deployed and everybody onboard, you should cut any connection with the vessel.

Why? The vessel has lots of extra supplies and is much more visible from the air. And the hulls protect the liferaft from the seas and wind. What’s the problem?

[riki]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Why? The vessel has lots of extra supplies and is much more visible from the air. And the hulls protect the liferaft from the seas and wind. What’s the problem?

So why deploy the liferaft then??
Deploying the liferaft is an extreme decision in "abandon vessel" situations.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by riki

So why deploy the liferaft then??
Deploying the liferaft is an extreme decision in "abandon vessel" situations.

Unless there is a dry area in the overturned cat, you're going to be far more comfortable and protected in a liferaft than either sitting in waist deep water inside a half submerged hull or trying to cling to the top of an overturned hull. Comfort is relative, obviously if you've ever been in one you know a liferaft isn't the most comfortable of places, but generally better than the other options. If you're with the boat you can get in and out between the two as well.
And yes, it's absolutely the wrong thing to do to let your 6' liferaft drift away from your 40' cat. I've spent a lot of time in the air looking for liferafts, boats, and people in the water. You can see a boat, often on radar as well as visually, at an orders of magnitude greater distance than a liferaft (and you have to fly directly over a person in the water, often more than once). Just the radar part is important to note. The C-130 radar for example is good enough that I know one crew repeatedly relocated a half submerged 55 gallon drum in the middle of the Pacific on a search pattern, but good as it is it's unlikely it would pick up a raft because there's just nothing reflective in it.

[riki]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Unless there is a dry area in the overturned cat, you're going to be far more comfortable and protected in a liferaft than either sitting in waist deep water inside a half submerged hull or trying to cling to the top of an overturned hull. Comfort is relative, obviously if you've ever been in one you know a liferaft isn't the most comfortable of places, but generally better than the other options. If you're with the boat you can get in and out between the two as well.
And yes, it's absolutely the wrong thing to do to let your 6' liferaft drift away from your 40' cat. I've spent a lot of time in the air looking for liferafts, boats, and people in the water. You can see a boat, often on radar as well as visually, at an orders of magnitude greater distance than a liferaft (and you have to fly directly over a person in the water, often more than once). Just the radar part is important to note. The C-130 radar for example is good enough that I know one crew repeatedly relocated a half submerged 55 gallon drum in the middle of the Pacific on a search pattern, but good as it is it's unlikely it would pick up a raft because there's just nothing reflective in it.

So it's a matter of comfort.......ok.
I don't want to argue with experienced sailors as most of you are compared to me, BUT, when i was studing to get my licence (yes in EU you must study quite a lot to get the sailing licence) i remember that one of the most important things to do after deploying the liferaft and getting everybody on board was to cut the lines. Beside that, if you read the instructions on most of the liferafts it is described that all lines connected to the vessel MUST be cut. And there are many reasons why safety comes before comfort.
And if you think about it there is a very simple logic: excluding fire onboard and sudden sinking basically, the main reason for a mayday and liferaft deployment it's serious bad weather and technical problems related to the weather. The question is: do you want to keep tight to a half sunk vessel in big sea/waves/winds? Not me. I understand that in the weird case of a cat miracoulously capsizing in nice weather it's more comfortable to stay on the liferaft tied to the vessel and having access to the bar, but this is very unrealistic.
But i indeed agree that on the raft it's important to have the right gear, including detection devices.

[a64pilot]

The whole concept of the statement of you don’t abandon ship until you have to step up into the life raft simply means that you don’t abandon a floating vessel, it’s got nothing to do with number of hulls. One, two or three if it’s floating, you don’t abandon it.
The number of Sailboats that were abandoned in severe weather that were later found without crews isn’t an insignificant number.
The number of Cats that are found much later after being capsized, isn’t an insignificant number either.

[riki]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The whole concept of the statement of you don’t abandon ship until you have to step up into the life raft simply means that you don’t abandon a floating vessel, it’s got nothing to do with number of hulls. One, two or three if it’s floating, you don’t abandon it.
The number of Sailboats that were abandoned in severe weather that were later found without crews isn’t an insignificant number.
The number of Cats that are found much later after being capsized, isn’t an insignificant number either.

EXACTLY!

[sparrowhawk1]

Actually it's a two-part question. if we're talking about a one-time emergency only use why would you need something you can pump up by hand? And no no no about only needing 2 minutes. Popcorn.

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Well yes, if you are expecting to do some real diving. But we are talking about a escape supply that really should only require less than two minutes supply of air. Personally I wouldn’t need any tank and I am 75 years old. But you are comparing apples and oranges.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1

Actually it's a two-part question. if we're talking about a one-time emergency only use why would you need something you can pump up by hand? And no no no about only needing 2 minutes. Popcorn.

If I can freedive myself out of a capsized catamaran what would you be doing that requires two minutes of air ? And how you pump up your air supply doesn’t seem to be part of the question. You either have air in your bottle or don’t.

[sparrowhawk1]

Re-read the question. The second part is asking about tanks you can pump up by hand. If all you need is two minutes then of course you just swim outside. remember this is going to be in seas that are so large that they flip a catamaran over. There's going to be all sorts of junk moving around inside the boat. Also assume it happens at night. Most likely there's going to be air pockets but you can't assume that you can get to them. Also most likely there's going to be some disorientation to which way is up, even forwards and backwards. not to be rude but this is my last response to you. Some catamarans actually have platforms that will be above the water line when the catamaran is flipped. that is the best place to be. If I had a catamaran and it didn't have this I would look into making one with proper flotation if possible.

Originally Posted by captlloyd

If I can freedive myself out of a capsized catamaran what would you be doing that requires two minutes of air ? And how you pump up your air supply doesn’t seem to be part of the question. You either have air in your bottle or don’t.