Manta now the best value for a 42' cat

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

I believe that was amended in 2001 by article 562 section E to allow foriegn flagged vessels 18 months to travel EU waters without having to go outside.

http://www.noonsite.com/Members/doina/R2004-03-16-1

http://www.eurunion.org/legislat/Art553to562.pdf

Hi Schoonerdog,
Without predjudice.
I am not sure of the exact legalities but a friend of mine who has a Lagoon met an Australian couple last year who had bought a BB385 with the view to sailing slowly (when I say slowly I am not critising the boat - I just mean they were to take their time) back to Australia, but they were not happy with various aspects of the boat and finishing, so under their warranty they told BB to put it right.
They left the boat in the UK - VAT unpaid) and flew back to Oz as they were told (due to [allegedly] BB commitments it could take 3 months), but the fixing took a lot longer which went over the 6 months and they were forced to pay the VAT before they could take it away.
Please remember I am repeating this information given to me by a solid source, but I cannot vouch for the Aussies side of their story this could be sour grapes for other reasons.
I will try and find out what the current legislation is so we can all be sure.

[schoonerdog]

Ireany,

Let us know if this isn't correct. Following is the form which states "privately used pleasure crate - 18 months". It states that the vessel must be registered outside the EC and by a person outside the EC. It also must be completed. If this person your friend met had a boat built but not yet registered outside the EC, they would be liable for paying the VAT. It sounds like an easy misunderstanding. From what I understand 18 months is uniform across any EU member country, but each county chooses how to enforce it. Also each country is free to determine how the clock is reset for reentry.

customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000382.

[Therapy]

Sort of a revival since someone is asking about "downsides to cats" and that knysna 44 thread made me think of this.

My wife met someone last week that had a Manta, sold it, and now wants another.

I am pretty sure she knew I was going to ask her 100 questions but she does not know anything else "until she emails me".



Anyway.....................

[Captainadam]

Good afternoon, I am glad to have stumbled onto the forum. We are the proud new owners of a MANTA 42 hull 122 which is being splashed on the FEB 11th . I have read some comments here and would like to contribute. The new 42 mkIV Mantas have a 21 foot beam. While this is narrower then some of the others it allows you to take a normal slip in a marina and not a double wide which costs twice as much. Also many boat yards have a hard time hauling out boats with larger then a 22 foot beam. It doesn't sound like a big deal until you have to move your boat 100 miles to get something done. The narrow beam in our situation is a space trade off which we felt was well worth it. The beam can be the difference of taking a dock in bad weather or mooring out. When my wife Jen is happy i am happy The trade off is well worth it! The small cabin forward of the head will be be more of a utility room with a laundry. For us i cant see it being used much as a bunk. These are built to be owner cruisers and not so much made for the charter folks who need large head counts. I thinks its a good idea to have the head (toilet) in-between the staterooms. Is it better crossing someone's room to to use the head? It also gives a bit of space if someone snores. It will be the out of sight junk/landry room for us. I am sure there are others that need the bunk as a bunk. A sailing school exists called Rum Line out of Florida. The boat used is a Manta called storyteller. We took a one week class that allows you to live and sail on the boat for a week. BTW Manta paid for us to take the class. We learned about the class after months after we ordered the boat and they still paid. That should say-something about the management. The ease of use is amazing. My wife never has been sailing before. By the 3rd day she operated the boat up to 10 knots in around 15 knot of wind with higher gusts. She had a perma grin on her face. The captain said he had seen the boat as high as 14 knots. There were 5 people on board with full gear fuel and water. The boat costs a bit more then posted in this forum when fully outfitted. I think they cost around $460,000 US fully outfitted. We were one of the last folks to order the boat as a semi custom. Before we had put our order in we were able to tour many of the French built boats. It was easy for us. We live in the Virgin Islands ( there are huge charter fleets here) I want to point out that there is a big difference from the photos from say the Lagoons for example to the real thing. I found in reality the finish to be quite lacking for my taste, interior decks that squeaked when walked on, exposed fasteners, when you look in the hatch compartments they look rather unfinished. When we toured the Manta the boat showed much better then in the photos. The wiring was unbelievably clean and well laid out. The finish work with only a couple of exceptions was top notch both on the surface and under hatches and bilges.
This boat is simple to operate with a smooth ride and easy steering. There are bigger cruisers out there but that isn't always better. We intend on doing crossings with this boat. They are built SALTY. There are no big sliding glass door on this boat. high quality hatches and fittings are used. The volvos were quiet but they will be getting airseps installed to keep everything clean. By the way the bunk lifts up to access the engines. I weigh 240 pounds and can easily get all the way around these engines. It will be nice to no longer work in a hole servicing engines.
I liked the Manta so much after seeing one I dug into my pockets an extra 50K to get an new one after vowing to NEVER buy another NEW boat again.
CHEERS I hope this helps.
Adam & Jen, Hull 122

[fastcat435]

Congratulations with your new Manta a very nice Cat
Happy sailing

[Captainadam]

Re: Frank Artville's note They just didn't add 4 feet to the 38 foot Mantas length, the interior volume was also increased by increasing headroom. The master stateroom has its own head forward, and is quite a bit larger with a separate shower. The 3rd small guest or as I call a laundry/gear storage room is forward of the guest head. It gives privacy if one was to ever charter this boat. The forward stateroom is out of sight. Having worked in services before sometimes it's better to not be seen when when not working. When I look at photos of the 40 foot mantas verses the 42's the 40's look dated to me. That is really just a matter of personal preference. If buying in the UK there is no escape hatch on the bottom of a MANTA. Personally I don't like them and hear it's an access point to the boat for those looking for a 5 finger discount. They take a small boat in-between the hulls as not to be seen so I have been told. All of the older boats we shopped that had an escape hatch, showed signs of leaking. OOPS, I went a bit off topic.

[pilot]

Originally Posted by Captainadam

If buying in the UK there is no escape hatch on the bottom of a MANTA.

To my knowledge, there is no "bottom escape hatch" normally installed on the MANTA?
I saw some month ago a 40`Manta in the yard with an escape hatch in the bottom.
The aluminum frame had some "fractures". Leaving the yard I had no chance to talk to the owner wether he installed it himself.
There could be some discussion, how to escape (or get back) in a flipped Manta.
But never heard of a flipped Manta.

And congratulations on your Mark IV!

Adam, did you join the MantaTech web group?

[Captainadam]

Good morning, Mantas don't come with a hatch on the bottom side. That was a selling feature for me If chartering in the BVI's a hatch is a requirement. I have never heard of a Manta flipping either. There is something to say for a solid glass hull with low windage. I have heard of Mantas crossing oceans with no problems. A woman on island with an older 40' Manta said she had hers in heavy seas coming from Florida to the VI's. She said only an old sail had blown out. Does anyone know if Mantas float or sink if compromised. If they float I don't see why one couldn't just walk out of one. They have sealed collision bulkheads with kevlar water tight compartments in the bow, stern and keels. We are a member of MantaTech, I am going back to buying gear on E-BAY so it gets delivered in time. HA! WHAT A BARGIN!
Cheers
Adam

[colemj]

Mantas had escape hatches until ~1998 (I can narrow it down to sometime between hull #32 and #39 - both built in 1998), when they stopped putting them in. The hatch was in the sole immediately inside the doorway into the saloon. Our boat has a plug glassed in this space, and later the hatch was removed from the mold so newer boats have no vestigial indication of the hatch. I always thought it would be very useful for sweeping the floor and catching fish (I'm a Michigander and sometimes miss fishing shanties)!

My experience is similar to Adam's in that without exception, every boat I have been on with escape hatches had significant leaking, and many of the owners had sealed them up to the point of not being usable for their purpose. Also, many of them had bars across them to prevent them from being opened from the outside. That seems to defeat their intent?

I was always curious about the CE rating Manta pursued (and got) a couple of years ago to sell boats in other countries - don't those ratings require a hatch?

Mantas barely float, at least when holed and upright. I saw pictures of one after a hurricane in which a tornado picked it up, bounced it on top of another boat holing the hulls and put it back in the water right side up (really!). Not much to work with for extended living in that situation.

I always hear about Mantas having sealed collision bulkheads in the stern, but I know ours does not, and cannot understand just where these would be located on newer ones. Adam, do you know where yours are? The keels have collision bulkheads front and back.

Manta hulls are only solid glass below the water line and windage is a relative thing (personally, I wouldn't exactly call our boat low windage). I guess "narrow" is relative also, since few slips in my area have >21' width. The haulout advantage is spot on - seems like 22' is a common travelift dimension and really opens up the available spaces. Twenty one feet isn't narrow for a 38' boat. Yes, they have increased the headroom by raising the coachroof a couple of times, but this is really a 38' boat in which design decisions were not based on chartering. So the hulls are narrower than charter boats. We consider this an advantage as we didn't want a larger boat than 38', and consider the extra waterline without the real estate a bonus.

Adam, congrats on your new Manta and have fun commissioning and taking it home!

Mark

[pilot]

[quote=colemj;133178]
I was always curious about the CE rating Manta pursued (and got) a couple of years ago to sell boats in other countries - don't those ratings require a hatch?quote]

I am fairly sure, that the 42`Manta "JADE" owned by Arni, has a CE rating for high seas operation. I have not noticed that this Manta has an escape hatch.
He picked up the boat at Sarasota and is presently anywhere in NZ.
@Adam
if flipped, I doubt that you are "just walking out". Alone the water pressure to the salon door, I guess, could be fairly high?

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by colemj

I always thought it would be very useful for sweeping the floor and catching fish (I'm a Michigander and sometimes miss fishing shanties)!

Damn you, Mark. Now I have coffee sprayed all over my computer screen!

Congrats Alan, on your new Manta. I agree with the title of this thread that these boats are, all things considered, currently the best new catamaran buy on the market.

Dave

[Captainadam]

HAHAH With the beam and windage I was comparing them to other boats we were looking at. There is no problem with a 21' beam in our area, but there is with a 23'. Basically a slip for the 21' beam averages at $756 a month plus water and electric. When we were looking at boats with a 23' the rates were around $1,600 a month plus water and electric. Over 3 years that's about $27,000 extra in expenses. I could fly from the Caribbean to the cold North East to visit my Mother-in-law 90 times for that same amount

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Captainadam

I could fly from the Caribbean to the cold North East to visit my Mother-in-law 90 times for that same amount

Paying the marina sounds like a better deal/excuse.

[David M]

I would like to see Manta come out with a high-tech, serious ocean cruiser, fast design in the 50-55 foot range. I would love to be able to purchase a US built cat.

[Captainadam]

Well we have been to the factory several times. They would have to raise the roof of the factory and add 8 feet to the back to get a 50 foot Manta inside. HA! I posted a couple of photos of hull 122 on our my space account. I hope this link works. If not I will try to do it another way. She is going onto the slings on the 11th and in the water on the 12th. Then the rigging, mast and hard top goes on. YES! The link is http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=128559975

Click where it says my photos. If you scroll down on the photo page, there are more photos than just the hull under construction.

BTW If you have skills in cleaning conch, can drink rum with out peeing over the side into the dingy, don't smoke, if you don't snore louder than the ole capt., and you're too slow to chase the first mate around the topsides, then there may be some room for you in the allegedly inconvenient bunk forward of the guest head.