Maintenance - Cat VS Mono

[yona]

After reading some of the threads here, I got more interested in Catamarans. Looking here and in other places I didn't find any discussion about maintenance in Cat VS Mono.
Does Cat needs more maintenance than Mono? Does it cost more to maintain Catamaran?

[sv_makai]

Maintenance for a cat and a leaner are similar for most items, ie lines, sails, etc. Where a cat realy becomes different is the bottom paints, engines, cleaning.

Engine maintenance is the same, you just have to do it twice and carry twice as many spares. 2 oil changes, 2 raw pump impeller changes.....

Cleaning is a much larger effort . There is a lot more surface area to wash and wax.

I feel that is some cases the maintenance work is easier to perform on the cat. Most have large engine rooms to work in making oil changes easier.

But the extra work is not as nice as sailing, fast, upright, and upon arrival getting in close with the shallow draft.

[captjohn360]

ah just think of a 30 ft cat as a 40 ft leaner and its all the same. jt

[delmarrey]

CATs require a larger slip area (hard to find, here). A haul out will cost more. They take more paint. And all around just more surface area to take care of.

But don't let that discourge you! There are lots of advantages!

I plan to get one myself. There's just no place to keep one here unless I want to hang out in the industrial areas (ship yards).................._/)

[yona]

Thank you for your answers.
If this is the case, I am a little bit surprised that Catamarans are not that popular. Is it only due to safety concerns
Is it possible to find a good Cat with the following parameters:

1 - Size - Should carry a family of 4 (probably around 30 feet).

2 - Good for offshore cruising.

3 - Boat that will last for a long time - 30-40 year (OK, maybe I am a little optimistic here, but my wife and I are both 32 years old).

4 - Minimal equipment - No AC, No refrigerator, No washer.

5 - Price - After the refit, shouldn't exceed 140K. Of course, it will be grate if I can find something for 100K.

[sv_makai]

We are currently in the Caribbean. There are crusing cats everywhere. I would say large portion 20-30% of the boats we have seen are cats.

Cats are becoming popular. A lot is to change the mindset of sailors to look at these as an option. Also, technology has improved them in both construction and the sailing abilty. Many older desings didn't sail well to weather. Many newer designs (last 5 ish years or so) sail upwind as well as cruising leaners. Makai points up with our leaner frineds and we still sail faster!

They are safe. Many have cruised safely around the world. Boat-links.com has a voyage page which has several catamarans. Ours was delivered on the bottom from Durban, SA through some of the roughest water in the world. voyage/maxim delivers all of their boats this way.


Size..hate to say this, but the larger the better. A lot of the speed advntages of a cat can be lost by overloading. With a family of 4 a 30ft will be easy to overload.

We have seen several cats who have raised their water line 4-6inches and now they have the speed of a leaner with a full keel.

Price..There may be good cats out there for that price. If you can afford it look a little higher as it opens up a whole range of boats. The newer the boat the lower the refit and generally the better upwind sailers you will be able to find.

We will never go back to a leaner, sailing crooked just isn't natural..just kidding!

[Strygaldwir]

As I refit my catamaran, I realize there is signficantly more maintenance to perform on a cat, and it is significantly more expensive than a monohull! Some examples:

o Engines, replace two of them. cost - $20k

o Bilge pumps - Replaced 2 in each hull. cost - $300.

o Overhead lights - replaced 17 of them. cost $900.

o Refrigeration - replaced , but same as mono

o Engine insulation replaced in one so far. Cost - $600.

o Water heater - replaced, but same as mono.

o Stove - replacing, but same as mono

o Scrubbing bottom - quotes for twice as much as mono.
did it my self in 4 hours. Zincs are twice also

o Sails - replacing, but same as mono

o Electrical - Lots more of it! replacing and rewiring - up to $800
so far. I am doing the work, wouldn't want to see how much
the cost would be if someone else did it.

o Batteries - replaced mine has 1 starter battery most cats two
Cost - $175

o Replacing battery switches - two - $180

o Anchor controls - replaced, but same as mono.

o Wood working. Afraid of the estimates there!!! Will see,
lot more area, lot more $$$ I suspect.

o Gave up on folding props 2 cost $4600.

I am getting estimates for painting the boat. I suspect they will be more than twice a 37' mono. Seems far, a LOT more area. I am having some difficulty in finding a yard that has a hoist wide enough to pull the 21 1/2 ' hull. I expect to pay a premium when I have it done.

Good news is the marina I am at does not charge for the wider slip! I pay the same as any other 36 footer.

So bottom line is if you have to do major maintance, it can be a LOT more expensive. Minor maintance, there is more of, and cost for major maint can be significantly more. Minor maintance cost are probably not that much more than a mono.... yet.





Keith

[TC]

Which currency are you using?

The costs you have outlined are frightening, do you have gold plating on your bilge pumps and battery switches?

I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying, regards doubling up many items, but I am shocked by some if not all of your quotes.

$90 for a battery switch?

Please enlighten?

[sv_makai]

Spend some time looking through one of the boating catalogs. Everything that has marine stamped on it costs twice as much!

Boating can be expensive.

[Strygaldwir]

All cost are in US dollars. Many of the things I picked up on Ebay. Some at Sailorman in Ft. Lauderdale, some at BOW. I tried to get them as inexpensively as possible! But....

The bilge pumps break down as follows:

o Bilge pumps are Rule 2000's I have four of them. 1 in each engine room 1 in each mid-hull. I got them for an average of $50 each. Total $200

o 40 feet of hose, almost 10 feet each. Total $30

o Auto/manual bilge switches ($20 each), 2 of those. Total $40

o 2 blue sea 15 amp panel switches to manually activate pumps $15 each. Total $30

o Rule auto float super swtiches. I forgot to include those in the estimate st of those . $25 each, pluse $4 for the covers!
Total $115.

o Rule hose addapters to use 3/4 inch tubing. My through hulls are all 5/8 - 3/4 inch. I will replace them when I haul the boat out for the bigger hoses that the rule pumps will support. 4 total @ $4 each. I also used titanium hose clamps. I bought a bunch of them so I did not include the cost. But generally they were about $3 each, I used 4 on each pump for a total of 16. Total approximate cost $64.

The actual cost was a something over $500 for every thing. Ouch! Expensive, but the lack of proper bilge pumps was why one of the hulls went down necessitating a rather extensive refit. ($42,000 and counting).

The battery switches are Perko. One is a 360/600 amp 1-2 both or none. The other is a 450/800 amp on off switch. They were a little over kill. I got them at wholesale rates for just around $200. Yes, you can get these a lot cheaper, maybe something on the order of $60 for both. But the Perko's really look cool


Certain things I really have tried to be as frugal as possible. Other things I have said I'd rather not be someplace remote and have this fail, so I have over engineered in some cases. As an example, I bought 2 new engines. If I were planing to do only local cruising, I probably would have rebuilt the flooded engine and done nothing to the other engine. Instead I installed two new engines and saildrives. Definately overkill! But, I shouldn't have any significant issues with them for the next 4000 run hours . Worth the peace of mind.


Another note, the sails are a little more expensive than monohulls! The are fully battened sails, 6 of them plus 3 reef points instead of perhaps 2 for a monohull. The full battens are about $600 for the hardware. The extra reef is about $100. At least that is what has showed up in the all the estimates I have received. I decided to use the hardware I have!!

Cheers,

Keith

[svcattales]

Keith, We just bought a used Privilege 37 and we are also looking at major refitting costs. Our boat was in charter for several years and I'm sure some of the maintenance was done by "Capt Ron" in the islands (like #14 wire crimped on to a #8 wire). Just got the boat home to St Pete in early March and have just begun the process. I did replace both props with Flex-O-Fold 3-blade folding props and difference in performance was significant. With old props, it took 2500RPM to get 6 kts. With new props, we get 7 kts at 2200 RPM (29 HP Volvos). Props were $2,700 for two which is much less than Max-props. I would like to compare notes with you since we are going through the same process.

[Strygaldwir]

We are not only going through a similar process, we are doing it on the same boat.

LOVE to compare notes!

[Strygaldwir]

An update!

For Haul out. Lauderdale marine center charges me $6.00 per foot as opposed to $4.00 per foot. I have to use the 88 ton lift because the 70 ton lift will only pull 17' beams. The 88 to will go to 24'. Luck I am not above that. the 220 ton lift cost $12.00 per foot.

They also charge 1.5 times the footage rate for being on the hard for multihulls. My cost per foot per day goes from 1.30/ft to $1.95/ft. This does seem fair, we do take up more yard space.

So, they are more expensive. A lot of smaller things that you don't really don't take the time to consider. Still happy though!
Only $1200 to have the bottom painted.



Keith

[cat man do]

Does any one in the states use a crane to lift cats?? In Australia we always use a crane and slings at about $100 Aud/hour and it rarely takes that long to do a lift. Cats oer about 35ft would need 2 cranes but it's still a quick job.
Don't forget the rigging wire fatigue, I replaced every 5 years and forestay every 3 years due to wires starting to break.

Dave

[Canibul]

One of the nice things my wife likes about catamarans is that her drink stays wherever on the deck she puts it while she lights her cigarette in the wind.

small things mean a lot..