Live Aboard - Norway - Suggestions ?

[Shankly71]

Hi everyone.

We are a family of four (2 adults and 2 children, 2 and 5 years old)

We are thinking about going offshore with a new(old) catamaran. I think a catamaran is the best solution for us, especially with the comfort in mind.
As we live in Norway and are planning on staying on the boat all year, we need a boat who can cope with cold weather and some rough sea (even thou at wintertime we will be docking most of the time)

In summer season- coastel sailing with a few crossings 200 nm.

I will be very happy if some of you can give me some advise on witch boat to look for-

Criterias will be:

Price range: < 220K euros
< 350K usd

- Galley down
- Easy to handle alone
- Good view from decksalon
- Best possible space
- Owners version
- Hard biminitop
- Isolation in the hull? Sandwich?

So, I hope some of you have an idea on what to look for.

[oscar]

Most cruising cats are not insulated to cope with winter at your latitude. That said, with an Ebersprächer heater in each hull and one in the main salon you will stay warm, for relatively little fuel expense. Plus, three means zoning and redundancy. Not cheap, but effective. So effective that you can in fact allow ventilation, as the lack of insulation is not so much a cold problem, but a condensation problem. Also look into dedicated vented materials for under mattresses. I also know people that will build a wood and plasic or shrink wrap tent over the boat in winter, to take advantage of solar heating, again have an area to vent into, and generally increase the usable space on deck.

[bastonjock]

Norway gets pretty cold in the Winter,is there a problem with the harbours freezing up? if there is,i dont think that GRP is a good material, for Ice,Steel would be a better material for a Hull.

[Lucky]

Hi Shankly,

Welcome to the forum. We live in Norway and sail an Fountaine Pajot Belize 43 out of Fredrikstad (south east coast).

One of the challenges with a cat is heating during winter. This last one beeing absolutely outrages when climate's concerned.
To make a cat livable during the winter months I believe extra insulation is a must to compensate in the areas not constructed with sandwich. I have insulated underneath the deck areas with a special insulation used on cooling systems, 19mm Armaflex. This prevents condensation in the hull areas.
Additionally I have made "cusions" of bubble wrap in several layers to fight condensation on hatches with aluminium hatch frames.

Heating with Eberspacher as indicated is a good choice, but two instead of three would suffice, we got one in our Belize but ideally should be two.

When it comes to your gally down option I would advise against it, this is a favour of the Australians but not so common i Europe. Lots of discussions of this on the Multihull section of the forum.

Since we've only had FP's, first an Athena 38 and now a Belize I would recommend the Belize 43 Maestro. This has the starboard hull dedicated to the owners with a great head wich can accomodate a washing machine.

In north east US you can find a well equipped Maestro, which are mostly well equipped from their owners as they are nearly always privately owned and never chartered.

If you want to discuss in detail send me a PM and we can get in touch.

Happy lead free sailin

[Southern Star]

Bastonjack, FRP is fine so long as you have a bubbler to push up warmer water from the bottom and prevent solid ice from forming around the hull. Many cats (including mine) were built with built in duct work for central heating/air and this would be a plus for living aboard in a cold climate.

In Canada numerous people live aboard year round and, typically one will see a temporary greenhouse erected over the entire deck in the winter. In addition, most people will not shower aboard during the winter, but rather use the marina/yacht club showers. As has been pointed out, condensation will be a huge problem even without use of the shower.

Brad

[barnakiel]

Don't listen to them. Buy the WARMEST one ;-)

b.

[Shankly71]

Lucky: Thank you - and I will contact you..

Question: (a little bit drunk after battering pompey) - With two smALL childfren and about 15 degree below - most likely iced in...

What are the chances for me to own a cat?

[Shankly71]

sorry about the post above - really looking of points of view regarding to living in a cat during winter...Love you all...

[Southern Star]

Shankly, in Ontario, Canada there are a couple of live-aboard communities set up to accomodate boats during the winter months and I would assume that there is something similar near you. I would check it out and speak to people who are doing it. Frankly, I see no real difference between a GRP monohull or catamaran. The issues will be the same.

Can it be done? Yes. Will it be comfortable? No. One couple I know who wintered aboard a C&C monohull (with cored hull) found that, while they were able to maintain reasonable temperatures, they were unable to beat the problem of condensation. This not only leads to a damp interior (and the potential for mold), but some interesting storage problems. Lockers along the hull are particularly problematic. The owner related that one morning he discovered his underwear, stored in a cabinet against the hull liner, was frozen to the side of the boat. He solved that problem by lining the locker with carpeting, only to find that it rapidly became moldy.

Apart from being unable to shower aboard in the winter (and likely having to bring water aboard with jerry cans), you will have to improve the ventilation into all lockers and, when possible, leave locker doors open. Only you can decide if that kind of life is workable for you and your family.

Brad

[Mule]

Condensation would be a bitc+ to control. Only idea I have may or may not work, and it is messy upon installation. Sprayed foam. Has many disavantages, such as some is very flamable, and the smoke? In voids between the hull and liner with a skilled sprayer-guy it might work. Super ugly if visible. I have never seen condensation inside a styrofoam cooler.

I have a small dehumidifer that seems to work good in my little 34 trawler, that could be an option, say three of em but mine uses a goodly number of amps. This may be one of those deals where a wood planked boat might not be so bad?

Good luck.

[Stein]

I've travelled a lot in sailboats, mostly multis, and I live in Norway, but I still wouldn't say I know much about the winter version of this, other than that the above comments are good ones. Eberspächer is just one of several producers though. Webasto is almost the same. Several others exist. Normally used is diesel burning air blowers. An alternative is water heaters. It's normally more expensive and slower at getting the temp up, but quiet and can be made to give a more distributed comfortable heating, like in the "floors" etc. If you plan to stay put at the harbour during the coldest period, electric heating is another possibility, as you'll probably be hooked up to the shore systems. The electric heating can utilize the same water distribution system or air blower ducts as the onboard burners.

I think I'd go for a cat that uses proper sandwich construction in all areas. At least 15 mm, preferably 20mm. Foam, not balsa. (Balsa is a good strong core, if used with vacuum moulding, but its insulating properties are not good). In addition to that, I'd try to add insulation on the inside areas where possible. In that case, non water absorbing materials glued to the hull with no voids behind... I'd also build something above to keep the snow off, and I'd cover parts of the outside areas with thick insulation like they use in houses, ("glassvatt" / "steinull") Some supply such stuff in suitable sizes, wrapped in plastic so it's ready to just put in place.

Where in Norway do you live? Have you been in contact with the local multihull society? Have a look at Nyheter &mdash; Norsk Flerskrog Seilklubb - Norwegian Multihull Association. Also talk to people that do the stuff, like Lucky above here, and the people at Aker Brygge in Oslo. They seem to like it much.

Stein

[barnakiel]

Condensation and ways to avoid it will be an issue along, and to be solved in sync with heating. My boat got plenty of condensation even in May in Goteborg ... But if you have shore power access and can afford the amount of power you will be using, then I believe you will have zero problem finding the right heater, dehumidifiers and ventilators (or whatever it takes).

I think, when the boat is on dry during winter, maybe you can build a sort of strong shelter around it - to keep the rain / snow and the worst of wind at bay. My friend is spending this winter in Poland, inside his steel boat. He built a 'hangar' round the thing and keeps on working on small projects when he gets fed up with skiing.

b.

[Shankly71]

Thanks for all the answers - a lot of information for me to use in the process buying a boat.

I understand if I use electricity from a shore the humidity/condensation will be OK and at the same time use heaters/fans to circulate/keep the heat in the hulls.

I really really like the Antares 44 but to expensive I think. That beauty basically have everything I ask for..the same old story - allways a little bit out of reach.

[graham3020]

Originally Posted by Shankly71

Hi everyone.

We are a family of four (2 adults and 2 children, 2 and 5 years old)

We are thinking about going offshore with a new(old) catamaran. I think a catamaran is the best solution for us, especially with the comfort in mind.
As we live in Norway and are planning on staying on the boat all year, we need a boat who can cope with cold weather and some rough sea (even thou at wintertime we will be docking most of the time)

In summer season- coastel sailing with a few crossings 200 nm.

I will be very happy if some of you can give me some advise on witch boat to look for-

Criterias will be:

Price range: < 220K euros
< 350K usd

- Galley down
- Easy to handle alone
- Good view from decksalon
- Best possible space
- Owners version
- Hard biminitop
- Isolation in the hull? Sandwich?

So, I hope some of you have an idea on what to look for.

have sent you a Private Message.

happy hunting
graham3020

[Shankly71]

Yes! Its done....if everything works out from France to Norway this week.

Yes, I have finaly found MY cat. Its a Simpson 13,7.

Spend three weeks in France this summer and I must say; frustration, engine problems, electrical problems, near death experience in force 8 with one engine and 6-7 knots of tidal streams

BUT- now we are ready for part 2. Mechanics and electrians have been working for a week or so, and the boat is now ready to go home. Three competent delivery sailors and me are going to take it home this week. Forecast is telling us at that we need to prepare for lightwind sailing, but that I dont mind.

So, when I learn a littlebit more of systems, sailing and get some more experience; Iam ready to share some of that with you guys, instead of taking and lurking around.

Fingers crossed!