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17-11-2020, 03:18
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#91
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,082
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
From Stan Honey:
To avoid making another DC ground to the engine via the HF/SSB radio copper ground strip, fasten the copper tape securely to an insulating piece of phenolic or to a terminal strip, cut a 1/10" gap across the tape, and solder several 0.15 uF ceramic capacitors across the gap.
The unintended DC connection between mast and DC ground is typically made by the masthead VHF whip, which connects the shield of the coax to the bracket connected to the mast. That shield also connects to the VHF radio which is DC grounded by its power connection. The easiest solution is to insert what is called a "inner-outer DC block" into the coax.
This RF device puts a capacitor in series with the center conductor, and another capacitor in series with the shield. This device is transparent to the VHF RF signals in the center conductor and shield, but blocks any DC current in either the center conductor or shield.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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17-11-2020, 03:24
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#92
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,082
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by CF32907
... My conclusion, I don't care what you do, pick a card. Its up to the God's. This is not guessing, this was personal observations. Do a lot, do a little, do full bonding, or no bonding, or bond a little. Nothing I seen would indicate better protection than anything else. How lucky do you feel!!! ...
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If unbonded = isolated, I wonder how one is to isolate a boat (& all it's components), floating in water?
So, one of the WORLD's foremost experts on telecom lightning mitigation asked me.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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17-11-2020, 06:08
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#93
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CHARLESTON, SC
Boat: Schucker 436
Posts: 112
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
The worst part of lightning protection is that you can never test your new system to prove it is working. I’m all for every idea but my back up is a spare vhf radio and antenna in a box. Being a marine surveyor for the Coast Guard, I spent a lot of time in ship yards and boat yards, so I saw a lot of the craziest different lightning damage to electrical systems and hulls. The worst was a motor yacht where the current went through the entire fiberglass hull like a million blisters. Everyone was scratching their head over that one. Several commercial fishermen told me about a lightning ball that rolls through the boat. I always wondered what they were drinking, but it may be true.
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17-11-2020, 08:09
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#94
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTYNAIL
The worst part of lightning protection is that you can never test your new system to prove it is working.
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That might be the most accurate statement of this entire thread.
Portable VHF and GPS in a box or microwave like having a first aid kit. No legal requirement but just good common sense.
Frankly
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17-11-2020, 08:14
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#95
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo
Greater. If hit it has to find a way out.
See this link. Boat not grounded and 2 holes blown in the bottom.
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In the videos attached it shows the hull damage occurred where the metalwork exits the hull. I have no metalwork exiting the hull.
__________________
Regards
Dave
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17-11-2020, 11:10
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#96
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 32
Posts: 2,874
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S
In the videos attached it shows the hull damage occurred where the metalwork exits the hull. I have no metalwork exiting the hull.
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He ended up with 2 holes through the hull.
It has to exit somewhere, underwater metal or not.
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17-11-2020, 11:54
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#97
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,521
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Does anyone have a link to a good surge suppressor for the VHF coax?
What's the best solution for a catamaran? Ground a shroud to a plate just below the waterline? Or run a wire from the base of the mast sideways to a hull plate?
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17-11-2020, 14:52
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#98
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF
Does anyone have a link to a good surge suppressor for the VHF coax?
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Look at Alpha Delta
Frankly
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17-11-2020, 18:16
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#99
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,767
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Since lightning damage is an insured liability on most Boats standard policy it ;stands to reason" that if there was in existence a remedy that protects against this damage the Insurance companies would certainly require it. Reading thru this thread it seems there is no remedy than can be installed as most types that were installed still suffered major damage. Plus the fact that its nearly impossible to accurately 'test' any system it looks like a crapshoot. By the way a boat (older 70s Fg 41ft Taiwan ketch) with wood mast was hit and set on fire at the mast about 8 ft above the boom, Strike traveled down mast setting main on fire and inside setting cabinets on fire but did not damage hull!!?? Fortunately the Clearwater Fire dept plus the rain put out fires within 8-10 minutes and boat is being repaired. Upon reflection and investigation the lighting pasted right by the grounded shtoudes before hitiing wood mast. hhmm no one looking could tell whether strike was upward or downward. people were on adjacent balcony watching storm when strike happened and there ears hurt from the noise. Scary.
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17-11-2020, 20:27
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#100
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
I do not agree. Over 55 years of Florida boat ownership I have experienced a lot of electronics failures that I have high confidence were lightning related. Also some near misses. But during that time never experienced a real wipeout (no major electrical damage, and with electronics damage always something(s) significant not harmed). Never lost a VHF which would appear to be the Canary in the Mine indicator. All the boats have had some feature(s) that addressed lightning issues.
I fully realize that the 200,000 amp strike with my name on is out there. Me and Cbreeze will be gone someday, just trying to put it off as long as possible.
Frankly
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18-11-2020, 03:55
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#101
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,767
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly
I do not agree. Over 55 years of Florida boat ownership I have experienced a lot of electronics failures that I have high confidence were lightning related. Also some near misses. But during that time never experienced a real wipeout (no major electrical damage, and with electronics damage always something(s) significant not harmed). Never lost a VHF which would appear to be the Canary in the Mine indicator. All the boats have had some feature(s) that addressed lightning issues.
I fully realize that the 200,000 amp strike with my name on is out there. Me and Cbreeze will be gone someday, just trying to put it off as long as possible.
Frankly
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So what were your "protective systems??"
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18-11-2020, 06:00
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#102
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Go look at the f###ing pictures. You guys that come late to the discussion and want to stick your nose in have the obligation to at least become half ass informed.
Frankly
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18-11-2020, 12:14
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#103
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Boat: FreeFlow 50 cat
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Step 1 > go to Www.marinelightning.com
Step 2 > read
Step 3 > think & try to understand
Step 4 > come back to thread and ask good question
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18-11-2020, 12:49
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 92
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo1404
Was in a Marina in Queensland during a terrible storm. A bolt of lightning hit the water really close. One yacht went to leave the next morning. Zero starter motor, depth sounder & bow thruster. Conclusion was that the charge must have travelled through the water.
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Since we weren't sinking or burning that was the same conclusion that my dad & I came to after the big flash bang, and the instantaneous stopping of the engine and everything electric on the boat.
until we were towed back to the dock, where onlookers pointed out the very black top of what was the middle of the CB radio antenna.
My guess.... lightning is extremely unlikely to hit the water near a boat.
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18-11-2020, 13:00
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 92
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Re: Lightning Protection for Electronics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly
Portable VHF and GPS in a box or microwave like having a first aid kit. No legal requirement but just good common sense.
Frankly
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my luck would be that the batteries in the portables would be dead......
and a spare but disconnected radio might be similar....considering that the battery bank is now toast form the lightning strike.
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