Lightning prevention system.

[Aloha-Ralf]

Originally Posted by Adelie

If there was an effective means to prevent lightning, the insurance companies would be giving a premium discount to install it. Especially for boats in Florida.

Excellent point. When we got hit by lightning last year I - again - researched how to avoid being hit. I came across this Elcome /CMCE system. This system is actively promoted by Pantaenius. I reached out to two friends of mine that work at Pantaenius and they truly believe that these systems help. To put money where their mouth is Pantaenius can give you an up to 100% discount on your deductible (if you have any deductible when lightning struck in the first place) if you have such a system installed. And, according to the Yachting World article below:

"Pantaenius is considering introducing a double deductible on lightning risks for areas outside Europe unless yachts are Pantaenius is considering introducing a double deductible on lightning risks for areas outside Europe unless yachts are "

https://www.yachtingworld.com/sailin...ind%20turbines.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

...



I believe the whole idea in preventions is trying to keep the static charge from building up on the boat. The smaller the static field the boat is creating as it passes through the environment the less likely the boat will appear as a good path. Once the electrons start building up there is a point when they will discharge.



That is my understanding.

No argument there. The root cause of the problem is the charged atmosphere, and to fix that would be quite the trick. Stopping the rubbing of particles as they travel up and down. Those particles are water, including rain and snow.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by team karst

No argument there. The root cause of the problem is the charged atmosphere, and to fix that would be quite the trick. Stopping the rubbing of particles as they travel up and down. Those particles are water, including rain and snow.

You don’t need to fix that, it’s perfectly okay to get the lightning strike to discharge the atmosphere a bit, you just don’t want to take part in that strike.

2/3 of all strikes is between clouds or even between layers of the same cloud. This leaves 1/3 of strikes that come down to ground to deal with. As long as there are points more attractive than your boat, because they are higher or charged to a bigger electric field,you should do okay.

[garyfdl]

My understanding from reading what Gord's links (and other sources) is that lightning mitigation is a waste of time. The only recourse is to give the lightning a path to ground that you want it to take, thereby eliminating, or (hopefully) mitigating any damage.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

I'm sure that there are dishonest pump installers. But IMO that is not a reason to refuse a claim, it's just an excuse so insurance companies don't have to pay the claim. That makes them just as bad as a crooked installer.

Originally Posted by Frankly

Not a reason to deny claims. An attempt to keep the system honest. If I found evidence of lightning damage my report indicated same.

Google what is going on down here now on the roof repair/ replacement scams.

Frankly is correct about insurance claims for roofs in Florida. It is one of the reasons home insurance is so expensive. When I lived in Florida, about half the cars in my county did not have insurance, which drove up the cost for everyone else. I hope they fixed that nonsense....

Back around 1990, a bad front went through Central Florida doing hundreds of millions of dollars of damages to cars and roofs. It was real. I had family members that needed new roofs, and if your car was outside, well, it was destroyed. One of my family's cars looked like someone had hit every inch of the car with a ball peen hammer. It was unreal. The car dealers and car rental companies took a hammering, pun intended. I think the roofing scams started up after than storm.

I just got mail from a roofer telling me how we could get our roof replaced due to hail damage by filing an insurance claim. We did have a bit of hail two weeks ago that was no problem.

Later,
Dan

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by team karst

No argument there. The root cause of the problem is the charged atmosphere, and to fix that would be quite the trick. Stopping the rubbing of particles as they travel up and down. Those particles are water, including rain and snow.

“Understanding Lightning: Thunderstorm Electrification” ~ National Weather Service

Originally Posted by NWS

While the exact details of the charging process are still being studied, scientists generally agree on some of the basic concepts of thunderstorm electrification. The main charging area in a thunderstorm occurs in the central part of the storm where air is moving upward rapidly (updraft) and temperatures range from -15 to -25 Celsius

At that place, the combination of temperature and rapid upward air movement produces a mixture of super-cooled cloud droplets (small water droplets below freezing), small ice crystals, and soft hail (graupel). The updraft carries the super-cooled cloud droplets and very small ice crystals upward. At the same time, the graupel, which is considerably larger and denser, tends to fall or be suspended in the rising air. The differences in the movement of the precipitation cause collisions to occur. When the rising ice crystals collide with graupel, the ice crystals become positively charged and the graupel becomes negatively charged ...

More ➥ https://www.weather.gov/safety/light...lectrification

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

My understanding from reading what Gord's links (and other sources) is that lightning mitigation is a waste of time. The only recourse is to give the lightning a path to ground that you want it to take, thereby eliminating, or (hopefully) mitigating any damage.

Lightning PREVENTION is a waste of time.
Providing lightning a preferred path to ground, is what mitigates* damage.
*"Mitigation" the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GordMay

“Understanding Lightning: Thunderstorm Electrification” ~ National Weather Service



More ➥ https://www.weather.gov/safety/light...lectrification

Exactly, this is why 2/3 of lightning strikes don’t touch the ground or surface structures: there’s better candidates (bigger potential difference) up in different locations in the sky like cloud to cloud or intra-cloud.

[bdgWesternMass]

Originally Posted by team karst

No argument there. The root cause of the problem is the charged atmosphere, and to fix that would be quite the trick. Stopping the rubbing of particles as they travel up and down. Those particles are water, including rain and snow.

I only stated that as way to reason with tradeoffs. I plan to integrate a circuit like this one into the boat.

https://www.electroschematics.com/lightning-detector/

If I receive the static build-up before the trouble my idea is to have hole in the center of the mast that will pass through to the water. The idea will be design the hole as sort of inverse faraday cage. The idea will be for the lightning rod at the top proved a straight path down. The hole/tube in mast will be grounded similar to this.

Marine Lightning Protection Inc.

If my circuit warns me of static build up I plan to drop a 0 gauge Copper line from the mast hole into the water providing the straighter path I can...

I was reluctant to share this idea because of the obvious naysayers. I don't mind constructive criticism every idea needs it.

I won't defend the from the moronic so I may not respond depending on my opinion of another's opinion. This could be a good thread.

Ben

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Lightning PREVENTION is a waste of time.
Providing lightning a preferred path to ground, is what mitigates* damage.
*"Mitigation" the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something.

You're right Gord. I mis-spoke.

[franksingleton]

On a quick look, I can see no mention of the Lightningmaster. All that I can say is that worked for us. I cannot guarantee the it will always work. As a low cost installation, it is worth having. The mast has to have a good connection to a good earth. It has to be higher than aerials. See my photo of Anhinga at Frank Singleton's Weather and Sailing Pages - Franks-Weather - The Weather Window.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by franksingleton

On a quick look, I can see no mention of the Lightningmaster. All that I can say is that worked for us.

How do you know?

[Pegu Club]

One can only “hope” to mitigate the effects of a lightning strike, one can not prevent it from happening,

Fair winds,

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by franksingleton

On a quick look, I can see no mention of the Lightningmaster. All that I can say is that worked for us...

Originally Posted by garyfdl

How do you know?

Reminds me of: "How to keep elephants away"
A man is sprinkling a powder all over the streets, when a policeman walks up to him, and asks what on earth he is doing. The man replies: “keeping the elephants away, of course! It's elephant repellent!”
The officer replies, “don't be absurd, there are no elephants here.”
The man replies: “ then it must be working!”

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Reminds me of: "How to keep elephants away"
A man is sprinkling a powder all over the streets, when a policeman walks up to him, and asks what on earth he is doing. The man replies: “keeping the elephants away, of course! It's elephant repellent!”
The officer replies, “don't be absurd, there are no elephants here.”
The man replies: “ then it must be working!”