Light air performance of different multihulls?

[mglonnro]

Watching all of the Ruby Rose multihull reviews, I found myself constantly thinking that I care less about how fast (ie 20+ knots) the boat optimally can go, more about how little wind it optimally needs to have at least some speed.

The two are connected, of course, but anyway, if anyone would care to offer some real-life experiences of what you consider "good enough" sailing speed and in what conditions you expect to achieve that?

We don't have a multihull, but with our monohull, here's how it roughly goes with us atm:

- Good enough speed: at least 4.5 knots. Closer to 5 than 4. If there's an occasional 5, it feels like good going.
- Reaching, we need about 6-7 knots of true wind for this. Upwind 8-10 knots. Running (without spinnaker) maybe 7-9 knots (maybe a bit more).
- Boat packed with a moderate amount of stuff. Two adults, four children, one dog.

[Factor]

Extremely valid observation, particularly in my part of the world (east coast australia) where the mean wind speed over 135 years of data is 12 knots. That means 50% of the time the wind is 12 knots or less. In other words if you own a boat that wont sail in 10 knots then you own a motorboat, so light air performance is very important. Doug Hibberd on his outremer 4X explains this very well.

VIDEO HERE

, its by the Australian dealer but its great content and its the content that is important. There is also an article from Multihull World magazine which addresses this issue.

[valhalla360]

Sounds like they are getting into the marketing end of things with the "Ruby Rose Package" and I'm sure they are at a minimum getting a discount in exchange for promotion...

With marketing, top end speed sells.

On the positive side, there is a pretty good correlation between top end speed and light wind performance.

[NaClyDog]

If any discount or compensation at all is at play when discussing something on youtube, people are morally (okay, I'm old fashioned) and should be legally obliged to disclose that.


My 2 cents.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

If any discount or compensation at all is at play when discussing something on youtube, people are morally (okay, I'm old fashioned) and should be legally obliged to disclose that.


My 2 cents.

I took it as self evident when they said they worked with the manufacturer and there is now a special affiliated version that anyone can buy.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I took it as self evident when they said they worked with the manufacturer and there is now a special affiliated version that anyone can buy.

I don't follow RR. What's the affiliated version about?

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I don't follow RR. What's the affiliated version about?

I don't follow anyone on youtube and but did watch a couple of reviews from them (but stopped watching after a couple of their reviews exposed their clear bias - more than likely based on an undisclosed association with a particular manufacturer).


I would take it to mean they get some compensation based on the number of people who purchase this uber special recommended super version as seen on youtube.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Watching all of the Ruby Rose multihull reviews, I found myself constantly thinking that I care less about how fast (ie 20+ knots) the boat optimally can go, more about how little wind it optimally needs to have at least some speed.

The two are connected, of course, but anyway, if anyone would care to offer some real-life experiences of what you consider "good enough" sailing speed and in what conditions you expect to achieve that?

We don't have a multihull, but with our monohull, here's how it roughly goes with us atm:

- Good enough speed: at least 4.5 knots. Closer to 5 than 4. If there's an occasional 5, it feels like good going.
- Reaching, we need about 6-7 knots of true wind for this. Upwind 8-10 knots. Running (without spinnaker) maybe 7-9 knots (maybe a bit more).
- Boat packed with a moderate amount of stuff. Two adults, four children, one dog.

I expect that like monohulls, light air performance is strictly a function of a reasonable hull shape and Sail Area to Wetted Surface Area. If the rig is too short and/or there aren't dedicated light air sails of sufficient size, the boat isn't going to do well.

[Yihang]

I think the so called Ruby Rose version is BS. I doubt they added those features because they asked. It was already in the mold. I doubt they added a front facing chart table because they asked them to.

We'll see how they play this. LV did it with a financed deal. I think RR has a bit more cash than LV so maybe they will pay for it with a discount.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I don't follow RR. What's the affiliated version about?

It's an upgraded version of one of the manufacturers models that have the features "they" think are important for cruising and it's sold based on being the "Ruby Rose" version.

They don't specifically state what, if any, compensation they are getting but I highly doubt they are paying full price with no compensation but allowing the manufacturer to leverage their youtube following. So I presume there is some form of compensation, even if just a hefty discount and therefore, I also presume, they are now at least informally marketing it.

I don't have a particular issue as it's pretty obvious that they are affiliated with the manufacturer. I would watch their other reviews with a grain of salt as they may introduce subtle efforts to steer you toward their boat for monetary reasons.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I don't have a particular issue as it's pretty obvious that they are affiliated with the manufacturer. I would watch their other reviews with a grain of salt as they may introduce subtle efforts to steer you toward their boat for monetary reasons.

I would agree with that IF they didn't do reviews of other models. What they did was disingenuous and a underhanded.

[Yihang]

it's definitely a little cringy watching them ignore all the issues in the 1260 they picked up in other boats, ie just top opening hatches in the cabins. In the other boats they were like 'oh, only top opening hatches means no ventilation in rain.' on the 1260 'two opening hatches, one above the bed, perfect!'. goodluck using that one above the bed in rain or even overnight with dew.

[malbert73]

RR is a seawind right? I imagine those have better performance than the typical charter cat in light air. Conundrum with cats is to make them fast in light air you have to trust owners to know how to reef early- hence not great for charter cats which could sail right through squalls under full sail

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Factor

Extremely valid observation, particularly in my part of the world (east coast australia) where the mean wind speed over 135 years of data is 12 knots. That means 50% of the time the wind is 12 knots or less. In other words if you own a boat that wont sail in 10 knots then you own a motorboat, so light air performance is very important. Doug Hibberd on his outremer 4X explains this very well.

, its by the Australian dealer but its great content and its the content that is important. There is also an article from Multihull World magazine which addresses this issue.

Great! Thanks for the video!

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Watching all of the Ruby Rose multihull reviews, I found myself constantly thinking that I care less about how fast (ie 20+ knots) the boat optimally can go, more about how little wind it optimally needs to have at least some speed.

The two are connected, of course, but anyway, if anyone would care to offer some real-life experiences of what you consider "good enough" sailing speed and in what conditions you expect to achieve that?

We don't have a multihull, but with our monohull, here's how it roughly goes with us atm:

- Good enough speed: at least 4.5 knots. Closer to 5 than 4. If there's an occasional 5, it feels like good going.
- Reaching, we need about 6-7 knots of true wind for this. Upwind 8-10 knots. Running (without spinnaker) maybe 7-9 knots (maybe a bit more).
- Boat packed with a moderate amount of stuff. Two adults, four children, one dog.

I agree with you that light airs is more important than other times. I have a meeting on Thursday to discuss this with a sail maker. I would be happy to reef earlier even to the point of 1st reef being the new normal and using no reef would be reserved for light air providing it will improve low speed significantly, remembering a big improvement like 20% might only be 0.5kn.

I think good enough speed is subjective, I enjoy playing with the sail set up in light air almost as much as at other times. If you have 30nm to go, 2kn SOG isn't going to do it for me but at other times it can be ok. I spoke to a guy who circumnavigated Australia and 3kn was his threshold for turning on the motors.