Leopard 50 burns and sinks

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by marshmat

This, in a nutshell, is why pretty much no marina operator anywhere will allow an uninsured boat to dock.

People keep saying this, but it's just NOT true. Only about half of the marinas we have stayed at ever ask us for proof of insurance. It's entirely possible that they have a "requirement" but if you don't enforce the "requirement" it's not exactly required, is it?

We are fully insured both hull and liability, and would really, really prefer that every boat docked around us has liability coverage at least equal to the value of our boat and contents.

[rslifkin]

Most marinas require insurance for a seasonal or other long term slip, but many don't ask for short term transients.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by CarlF

The lesson here is that you should be extremely careful to only use acetone outside and even then with great care. It's amazingly dangerous stuff.

The great thing about acetone is that is relatively nontoxic and environmentally friendly compared to less flammable alternatives.


It can be used safely with proper ventilation, a thorough effort to eliminate possible sources of ignition, and attention to the amount of acetone that is exposed to the air at any given time. Many other common solvents are also a fire hazard e.g. toluene, most alcohols, methyl ethyl ketone, etc.


I think it is unfortunate that safer solvents are not in more general use for boat maintenance. 2-Butoxyethanol is much less flammable, and has low toxicity, and is a primary solvent in some marine 2-pack paints and is sometimes sold as carburetor cleaner. Most people don't know what it is, and you can't buy it by name at the paint store, though Interlux sells it as their 2333N reducer.

[C420sailor]

Acetone is perfectly safe as long as you aren’t a total moron.

It is the cleaning/prep solvent of choice in most welding shops (full of arcs and flames), and if those places aren’t burning down left and right, there’s no reason a properly ventilated boat should.

IOW: don’t fill the bilges with it and then have a seance and you’ll be fine

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Yes. Once it starts to grow, the resin and core of the hull / deck, the upholstery foam, the wood panelling, the acrylic canvas, the polycarbonate hatch glass.... they all make great fuels. At 600°C, pretty much the only things on a boat that won't burn are the metal fittings and the engine block.

"Fire retardant" synthetic materials – everything from PVC wire insulation to polycarbonate windows – generally won't sustain a flame on their own. If there's a small / smouldering fire, eg. an overheated wire, and the heat source is removed, they should self-extinguish. But that protection goes out the window at somewhere around 300°-400°C sustained. With the wind acting like a blacksmith's bellows, and the more readily flammable stuff (eg. the wood) providing sustained heat, the synthetics – even if nominally flame-retardant – start to become awfully nice fuels, and as they melt, the exposed surface area (and thus the reaction rate) goes way up.

Metal boats aren't much of a panacea. The structure itself may not be flammable, but everything inside it still is. A lot of metal boats have burned.

The systems engineering challenge here is to prevent the fire from igniting in the first place.

The materials engineering challenge is to ensure that any tiny, smouldering fire that does start will tend to self-extinguish, rather than self-amplify. But actually achieving that in many types of materials tends to incur huge penalties in cost, and often in toxicity, functionality, and durability.

Ive seen engine blocks melt in a boat fire before.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

Acetone is perfectly safe as long as you aren’t a total moron.

It is the cleaning/prep solvent of choice in most welding shops (full of arcs and flames), and if those places aren’t burning down left and right, there’s no reason a properly ventilated boat should.

IOW: don’t fill the bilges with it and then have a seance and you’ll be fine

That's what I'm thinking. I have no clue if acetone was the inflammable but regardless someone must have really screwed the pooch. If it was a yard employee I guess we'll learn just how much coverage they carried. Over two million dollars in boats, plus contents, plus environmental cleanup will be a game show check. Now, on the other hand, if the owners hired someone on their own to do some work it will definitely not be no worries.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by contrail

At the very least, consider liability insurance, so that no one else is harmed by your own misfortune.

That's not what liability insurance is for. Its to prevent YOU being harmed in the case that you do harm someone else.

Possibly a subtle, but I believe important distinction.

[Dsanduril]

Two Men Hospitalized After Fire Destroys Two Docked Boats In Dania Beach

...BSFR said there were workers on one of the boats resurfacing or reglazing the boat at the time of the fire.

Two men suffered burn injuries. One received significant burns to his lower legs and the other suffered minor burns.

Both are expected to recover.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

That's not what liability insurance is for. Its to prevent YOU being harmed in the case that you do harm someone else.

Possibly a subtle, but I believe important distinction.

Not so much of a distinction as it is the other side of the coin. The main point is that maybe someone could have afforded 2 Grand to have Liability insurance against damage caused to others but could not afford to pay for damage to others out of pocket.

[Lovedog100]

The couple that own the boat have posted another video today. It appears to be going down the same subjects as this thread.
https://youtu.be/l2xBYqtWcDs

[nortonscove]

My experience is that fibreglass takes a great deal of heat to get burning to that extent. That fire would have taken a little time and a good source to start.

[more]

[QUOTE=MultiCountryDon;3475275]

Originally Posted by CarlF

My understanding is that acetone was being used by a worker. It set off a fireball.


Link to basis of that statement please.

Don

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2...-beach-marina/

According to the Broward Sheriff’s Office, two vessels were fully involved in the fire.

The boats were tied together while undergoing mechanical repairs when they somehow caught on fire, officials said.

People who live in the area told Local 10 News they heard a loud boom before seeing the smoke and flames. Some were concerned the fire would spread to nearby homes.

The cause of the fire is unclear at this point and is under investigation by the Coast Guard, which is also looking into any potential environmental impacts.

News in USA is **** like in Croatia,EU always 1 man burn 100 boat
and is under investigation by the Coast Guard,police
or no coment

[more]

Originally Posted by ixnax

Not so much of a distinction as it is the other side of the coin. The main point is that maybe someone could have afforded 2 Grand to have Liability insurance against damage caused to others but could not afford to pay for damage to others out of pocket.

1 day to remove wreck is little to fast. in Croatia is 30 days timeframe for remove the wreck. all by Nairobi 2007 convention and EU law.

If the authorized person does not initiate within 30 days
the procedure of obtaining the approval of the removal of the wreck, or if within the period
of 30 days from obtaining approval does not begin
removal operation, or without good reason
interrupts the removal process for more than 5 days…
but this shipyard and workers be in deep ****.

OBLIGATION TO REMOVE
• Mandatory removal - if there is an element of danger, competent
the Harbor Master's Office may take certain measures:
• Marking of the wreck, order to the owner to remove it, proof of existence
insurance or warranty policies, security conditions of removal, deadlines for removal,
taking removal actions at the expense of the owner
• Exoneration reasons of the owner: violent acts, insurmountable and
unavoidable natural occurrence, action / omission of a third party
(intention), harmful action of the competent authority

coming nasty court, fin for this workers or owner where worker work

[contrail]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

That's not what liability insurance is for. Its to prevent YOU being harmed in the case that you do harm someone else.

Possibly a subtle, but I believe important distinction.

To be clear, what I meant was that if YOU can't pay your liability loss, you are hurting SOMEONE ELSE, financially, and potentially in other ways.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by more

1 day to remove wreck is little to fast. in Croatia is 30 days timeframe for remove the wreck. all by Nairobi 2007 convention and EU law.

If the authorized person does not initiate within 30 days
the procedure of obtaining the approval of the removal of the wreck, or if within the period
of 30 days from obtaining approval does not begin
removal operation, or without good reason
interrupts the removal process for more than 5 days…
but this shipyard and workers be in deep ****.

OBLIGATION TO REMOVE
• Mandatory removal - if there is an element of danger, competent
the Harbor Master's Office may take certain measures:
• Marking of the wreck, order to the owner to remove it, proof of existence
insurance or warranty policies, security conditions of removal, deadlines for removal,
taking removal actions at the expense of the owner
• Exoneration reasons of the owner: violent acts, insurmountable and
unavoidable natural occurrence, action / omission of a third party
(intention), harmful action of the competent authority

coming nasty court, fin for this workers or owner where worker work

Not quite the same process, in the USA.