Lagoon 410 - things to look out for.

[Grateful]

My wife and I are days away from attending the survey of what we hope will be our new to us year 2001 Lagoon 410. The boat has new rigging, cross beam, and many other recent replacements, so standing rigging should not be much of an item.

We are interested to know of any issues endemic to 410s of this vintage that we should be aware of. I do know about the potential for water damage under the saloon sole from leaking / disconnected condensation drains on AC and reefer. Are there any other items specific to the 410 that one should be on the look-out for?

Thanks in advance for your help and wish us luck!

[Hugh Howey]

Originally Posted by Grateful

My wife and I are days away from attending the survey of what we hope will be our new to us year 2001 Lagoon 410. The boat has new rigging, cross beam, and many other recent replacements, so standing rigging should not be much of an item.

We are interested to know of any issues endemic to 410s of this vintage that we should be aware of. I do know about the potential for water damage under the saloon sole from leaking / disconnected condensation drains on AC and reefer. Are there any other items specific to the 410 that one should be on the look-out for?

Thanks in advance for your help and wish us luck!

I've heard Lagoon 410s have a nasty propensity to cause margarita consumption and permanent grins. But that might be something you have to deal with on any boat.

Congrats and good luck!

[rabbi]

Margarita consumption??? Never! I only suffered some serious rum punch desease. As for smiles: our kids still smile when they see a turquoise bimini. Our boat came in this faded Lagoon color of the 90s. A color that looked worn and ugly but at least we recognised our boat instantly in any crowded anchorage


We bought a 1999 Lagoon 410 back in 2010 in the Med and sold in 2012 after a sabatical cruise to the Caribbean. I think it was an excellent choice for this.

Here are the little issues we experienced. Don't know how much of this is really 410 specific but maybe it helps.
the 410 are solid glass below the waterline but have a balsa core above the waterline. No problem if it stays dry, but can rot if moisture creeps in. That would be an expensive repair. So all deck gear needs to be firmly attached and properly sealed. All these pad eyes, bolts, blocks, stanchions, posts, etc. Everything!
The surveyor of our buyers found inconsistent but slightly high moisture readings in the cockpit seat and sole- possibly indicating a small leak into the core from a bad seal around the helm seat or bimini. That's the main point I disliked about the Lagoon build philosophy. I love the foam core we have now in the Mahe.

We had few other small leaks initially:
The drain outlets just in front of the sliding doors were not sealed properly so some rain water found its way between the layers of the cockpit sole.
We had factory installed 4 little padeyes on the inner hull side just above the waterline to attach jacklines after flipping over. The aft ones were leaking badly in a seaway - hard to find as it's under the sound insulation foam of the engine compartment!
Another leak we had was the transom steps (these are one piece glued into place) leaking rainwater into a sealed compartment accessible only through an access panel in the wall above the aft cabin beds. Also the transom shower can leak into it. The compartment drains through a hose into the main bilge.

We fixed plenty of small leaks but never managed to get a fully dry bilge on that boat. For example the hot water boiler has a pressure relief valve which spills into the engine bilge every time the water is heated and expands.
Overall not a big issue if you have the optional automatic bilge pumps. But if there are any high water marks visible check the wooden bulkheads.


We had plenty of little wiring issues, mostly corrosion and badly crimpled connectors. Literally everywhere from the speed sensor below to the masthead light and everything in between. Not hard to fix but annoying, especially if things become unreliable. Lagoons (just like FPs) don't use tinned wire so can have some corrosion. So at least check the backside of the main switch panel (there is an access panel in the salon, right below the navigation desk). The navigation panel can be flipped forward to check it's backside.
The main batt switches are in the small locker in front of the beds in the port aft cabins. To starboard there may be an engine coupling switch.

If the windlass is still the one that we had on ours (Leroy Somer) you will not be able to get spares. If its dead or wears out its time for a new one from another brand.

Our hot water plumbing was brittle and over time we had several leaks so finally replaced it.

Check the vertical front windows for dislocation against the frame and bad outside sealing.
Check the escape hatch for leaks.

The diesel tanks are under the aft cabin floor, check that the sensor on top is undamaged (if the tank is really full it can rub against the floorboard).

Its worth to look at the end of the steering cables where they attach to the wheel gear. Ours were misaligned causing unnecessary wear. You would need to remove another access panel in the port aft cabin, though.

Model 2001 means the rubber gaskets between the hull and the saildrive should have been replaced already back in 2008 and are due for replacement in 2015. More likely they have not been replaced at all and are way overdue. Cost around 2k for both if done by a pro, maybe half if you do it yourself.


Overall its a really nice boat. There were two design issues for me. The square hull extension below the bridgedeck makes the aft cabins very loud during passages as waves constantly slap against it. And there is this round settee in the salon. How does one stretch out to read a book? Or sleep during the watch??

We decided not to sail her back across the atlantic (not a nice trip for a shorthanded family with pre-school kids) plus we had a good offer on the table so we sold after our trip. Otherwise we would probably still own her. Nothing to regret with the choice.

The 410 doesn't carry lots of sail area but if you keep her light she may even perform well. Ours was overloaded and pretty slow (atlantic crossing at 5.2kn average with standard sails). The reason as I see: The PO had too much money, so he had the biggest genset and watermaker intalled that would fit, same for dive compressor, A/C units, etc. Everything at least one size too big and heavy for the boat and 5 times too expensive for my taste. I could have saved literally a ton on these items.


All the best for the survey. I would take a set of screwdrivers with me for the numerous access panels, a torch and of course a camera. I use my phone as it has a good light and can make videos of areas otherwise inaccessible.

If this particular boat turns out to be a bad apple: There is a 2004 owners version on apolloduck for 179k Euro, located in cyprus (one advert by the owner, another by a broker). Has been on the market for maybe 2 years now, and only recently been reduced. If I were in the market for a 410 that's one I would love to look at.

[Grateful]

Hugh,

I've found those items in most boats myself.

Rabbi,

Thank you for that comprehensive list. As always with a balsa core hull, we'll be on the lookout for moisture ingress.

Fortunately, the windlass and hot water have just been replaced. Given the reputation for the original drive boots, I'd be amazed if the original ones are still there, but we'll check. Lagoon wiring is (in)famous. Good points on window seals and steering cable alignment.

On the subject of fuel tanks, is there an inspection port? How difficult is it to access? Funny me, I have a thing about dirty fuel tanks and all the associated problems they bring. I hope that I can get in there and clean whatever goop and grit is bound to be on the bottom of the tanks before embarking on my delivery, (or better yet, get the current owner to do it ).

[rabbi]

In our model there were no inspection ports in the tanks. We could only remove the level sensor, which gives you a small hole. enough to send the pipe of an electric suction pump thru this hole to get all diesel and dirt out, cycling the diesel back into the tank thru a fine filter, called Mr. Funnel.

[ozsailer]

Hello Grateful.
we purchased our 2004 410 S2 last year and have been extremely please with her every since. In fact Sunshine has far exceeded our expectations. When first looking at the Lagoon 410s I did an awful lot of research to see what faults may be present in the boats. The only real issue I found was the sole in the saloon. First thing I looked at when we inspected the boat and sure enough we found a small section that was rotted. No big deal as relatively easy fix and we were able to negotiate a better deal.
We also found that if the drain pipe between the front lockers and rest of the boat have been closed water can build up in the locker and after time rot the bottom of the bulkhead. Our was just starting to rot and we negotiated for this to be repaired to the satisfaction of our surveyor at the seller cost.
These were the only things of importance that we encountered. The Lagoon is a very easy boat to access and work on. Be mindful that the section of the cockpit adjacent the helm seat and cockpit seat that appears to have a silicon bead around it. This section can be removed with access via the roof lining in the aft cabins and the motors or large motor parts removed.

Good Luck


Greg, Sue and Bella the sea dog
Sunshine
Lagoon 410 S2

[cliffsailing]

this is absolutely invaluable information - thank you ...

Originally Posted by rabbi

Margarita consumption??? Never! I only suffered some serious rum punch desease. As for smiles: our kids still smile when they see a turquoise bimini. Our boat came in this faded Lagoon color of the 90s. A color that looked worn and ugly but at least we recognised our boat instantly in any crowded anchorage


We bought a 1999 Lagoon 410 back in 2010 in the Med and sold in 2012 after a sabatical cruise to the Caribbean. I think it was an excellent choice for this.

Here are the little issues we experienced. Don't know how much of this is really 410 specific but maybe it helps.
the 410 are solid glass below the waterline but have a balsa core above the waterline. No problem if it stays dry, but can rot if moisture creeps in. That would be an expensive repair. So all deck gear needs to be firmly attached and properly sealed. All these pad eyes, bolts, blocks, stanchions, posts, etc. Everything!
The surveyor of our buyers found inconsistent but slightly high moisture readings in the cockpit seat and sole- possibly indicating a small leak into the core from a bad seal around the helm seat or bimini. That's the main point I disliked about the Lagoon build philosophy. I love the foam core we have now in the Mahe.

We had few other small leaks initially:
The drain outlets just in front of the sliding doors were not sealed properly so some rain water found its way between the layers of the cockpit sole.
We had factory installed 4 little padeyes on the inner hull side just above the waterline to attach jacklines after flipping over. The aft ones were leaking badly in a seaway - hard to find as it's under the sound insulation foam of the engine compartment!
Another leak we had was the transom steps (these are one piece glued into place) leaking rainwater into a sealed compartment accessible only through an access panel in the wall above the aft cabin beds. Also the transom shower can leak into it. The compartment drains through a hose into the main bilge.

We fixed plenty of small leaks but never managed to get a fully dry bilge on that boat. For example the hot water boiler has a pressure relief valve which spills into the engine bilge every time the water is heated and expands.
Overall not a big issue if you have the optional automatic bilge pumps. But if there are any high water marks visible check the wooden bulkheads.


We had plenty of little wiring issues, mostly corrosion and badly crimpled connectors. Literally everywhere from the speed sensor below to the masthead light and everything in between. Not hard to fix but annoying, especially if things become unreliable. Lagoons (just like FPs) don't use tinned wire so can have some corrosion. So at least check the backside of the main switch panel (there is an access panel in the salon, right below the navigation desk). The navigation panel can be flipped forward to check it's backside.
The main batt switches are in the small locker in front of the beds in the port aft cabins. To starboard there may be an engine coupling switch.

If the windlass is still the one that we had on ours (Leroy Somer) you will not be able to get spares. If its dead or wears out its time for a new one from another brand.

Our hot water plumbing was brittle and over time we had several leaks so finally replaced it.

Check the vertical front windows for dislocation against the frame and bad outside sealing.
Check the escape hatch for leaks.

The diesel tanks are under the aft cabin floor, check that the sensor on top is undamaged (if the tank is really full it can rub against the floorboard).

Its worth to look at the end of the steering cables where they attach to the wheel gear. Ours were misaligned causing unnecessary wear. You would need to remove another access panel in the port aft cabin, though.

Model 2001 means the rubber gaskets between the hull and the saildrive should have been replaced already back in 2008 and are due for replacement in 2015. More likely they have not been replaced at all and are way overdue. Cost around 2k for both if done by a pro, maybe half if you do it yourself.


Overall its a really nice boat. There were two design issues for me. The square hull extension below the bridgedeck makes the aft cabins very loud during passages as waves constantly slap against it. And there is this round settee in the salon. How does one stretch out to read a book? Or sleep during the watch??

We decided not to sail her back across the atlantic (not a nice trip for a shorthanded family with pre-school kids) plus we had a good offer on the table so we sold after our trip. Otherwise we would probably still own her. Nothing to regret with the choice.

The 410 doesn't carry lots of sail area but if you keep her light she may even perform well. Ours was overloaded and pretty slow (atlantic crossing at 5.2kn average with standard sails). The reason as I see: The PO had too much money, so he had the biggest genset and watermaker intalled that would fit, same for dive compressor, A/C units, etc. Everything at least one size too big and heavy for the boat and 5 times too expensive for my taste. I could have saved literally a ton on these items.


All the best for the survey. I would take a set of screwdrivers with me for the numerous access panels, a torch and of course a camera. I use my phone as it has a good light and can make videos of areas otherwise inaccessible.

If this particular boat turns out to be a bad apple: There is a 2004 owners version on apolloduck for 179k Euro, located in cyprus (one advert by the owner, another by a broker). Has been on the market for maybe 2 years now, and only recently been reduced. If I were in the market for a 410 that's one I would love to look at.