Is buying a Starter Boat a dumb idea?

[Nani Kai]

[QUOTE=ssmoot;3145094]

My main concern is financial. I have no idea how to get an honest read of the boat market since the only experience I have with it is used powerboats for lake fishing and towing kids on inflatables.

If I could buy something trailerable for say $50,000, maintain it well, clean it up, put perhaps $10,000 into upgrades and sell it three or four years later for $40,000 I think I'd feel like it was well worth the effort.[/LIST]
Your "financial" question above provides its own answer. You understand the limits of your boat buying experience. The solution is to get more experience. Your posting on the forum is the beginning of that quest.
The next step is to look at every boat you think might work, including monohulls and catamarans both below and above your target price point. The earlier post that noted the advantage of buying a used boat that already has a lot of peripheral gear and upgrades is excellent advice. By looking at a wide price range you may see a more expensive boat with extras that will cost you a whole lot less overall.

In doing exactly what I am recommending we found the perfect boat for us by discovering what was NOT perfect.

[GeneM]

If you like boating and have limited funds, then yes - get a starter. If you enjoy fixing things, then get a little bigger one and plan on sinking in a lot of time and some money. If you don't like fixing things, get a smaller boat that is set-up well (trusted buyer's broker - hard to find - avoid Pop Yachts).

Expect to never get out what you put in. The payoff is in enjoyable days and in statsfaction overcoming challenges. Boats are not good investments.

Including the opportunity cost of my labor, I can probably only get half of what I put into my boat. I wouldn't break even on just the cash invested. But, I love every minute of it!

[davefromoregon]

If you can compromise on the trailerable part, I’d suggest looking at a Catalina 30. They will be well under your budget but give you plenty of opportunity to really learn to sail. They will have a Diesel engine, a head and a galley so you can weekend on them.

[JereBear]

If you live near DFW, I have a ‘78 fixed keel Catalina 25 that I’m restoring. With excellent trailer and tired 9.9 motor, recovered cushions, excellent sails, roller furling, etc. asking $1,750 as is. I have $4,700 already in the boat. I’m replacing water damaged bulkheads and repairing minor glass damage. I have bottom paint available. Pretty boat. But I have three other sailboats too, so need to unload this one as I’m 73 and need less work.
I live 25 miles south of Ft Worth. Sounds like you are very capable finishing restoration.
I have always enjoyed lake sailing, but when I moved from trailering my Cal21 to having a Chrysler 26 in a slip, my time on the water tripled. Love slip storage for camping, maintenance, ease of use - especially single handling. I thumb rides on larger boats at salt water regattas frequently. Great learning experiences.

Kind regards.
JereBear

[tomfl]

[QUOTE=Nani Kai;3147154]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

SNIP

If I could buy something trailerable for say $50,000, maintain it well, clean it up, put perhaps $10,000 into upgrades and sell it three or four years later for $40,000 I think I'd feel like it was well worth the effort.

SNIP

Historically older used fboats usually run from $US20,000 to $US50,000 (and over). They hold their value well and if you maintain and don't abuse them you should easily be able to do that. Should be able to find a used C24 for $US25,000, a C27 for around 35, depending. and a C28 for a little more. Need to be careful in inspecting them (good on line advice at Ian's site and online forums specific to fboats).

But with this COVID-19 mess all bets are off,

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by GeneM

Expect to never get out what you put in. The payoff is in enjoyable days and in statsfaction overcoming challenges. Boats are not good investments.

Understood. I'm imagining it's something like a travel trailer, without quite as steep of a depreciation curve hopefully. I take for granted whatever the sale, it'll be at a significant loss. Just hoping that might be closer to 20% than 50%.

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by JereBear

If you live near DFW, I have a ‘78 fixed keel Catalina 25 that I’m restoring. With excellent trailer and tired 9.9 motor, recovered cushions, excellent sails, roller furling, etc. asking $1,750 as is. I have $4,700 already in the boat. I’m replacing water damaged bulkheads and repairing minor glass damage. I have bottom paint available. Pretty boat. But I have three other sailboats too, so need to unload this one as I’m 73 and need less work.
I live 25 miles south of Ft Worth. Sounds like you are very capable finishing restoration.
I have always enjoyed lake sailing, but when I moved from trailering my Cal21 to having a Chrysler 26 in a slip, my time on the water tripled. Love slip storage for camping, maintenance, ease of use - especially single handling. I thumb rides on larger boats at salt water regattas frequently. Great learning experiences.

Kind regards.
JereBear

I'd love to give a light restoration/refit a shot, but that sounds a bit beyond me right now. I'm afraid it'd become another half-finished project hanging over my head. In a couple years after I'm done with the house maybe I'll set my sights a bit higher, but right now I'm trying to keep it to cosmetics, cushions, maybe basic rigging.

I appreciate the offer and the advice though! The more I think about it, the harder it is to figure out what I want.

[Tillsbury]

Time to walk around some marinas then

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Time to walk around some marinas then

I just want a 4,500lb boat, including trailer, than I can take to the lakes or the coast, with an enclosed head, compact galley, 3 berths that sleeps a family of 4, Bermuda rigged like I might eventually have on a bigger boat, is beachable ideally, and doesn't cost as much as a "forever boat". Oh, and 1,500kgs of crew and payload would be nice.

It's almost as if you can't "have it all"!

If anyone has any leads on a mint condition Dragonfly 28 in the US selling for $50K I'm all ears though!

The Swallow Yachts Baycruiser 26 looks like a real nice boat too, but it's pretty expensive and not available in the US either.

I think I'm on the slow path to picking up a Corsair 24/750/760 in the next year or two though. It seems to cover most of the "fun/trailerable" side of things even if the "accommodations" side of the equation is pretty lacking. Putting a porta-potty under a cushion just really bothers me. Plans subject to change...

[TravelinLight]

So if you sell it in 5 year and expect to lose 20k that is 4 k a year in cost. How many times a year will you actually use it? Not to mention the storage, insurance, maint, fiddly things?

For a 5 year plan like that renting may make more financial sense.

[OS2Dude]

Remember the adage: 'The best way to become a millionaire is to buy a boat when you are a billionaire.' Do not go into this thinking you will recoup your investment, let alone make any money on it. Sometimes it can happen, but not often.

That said, Buy a decent sized (26' or so) boat. I started with an O'Day 23 for $6000 after my wife passed. It was a good boat, fun to knock around the lake in, but it was small, no head-room when the hatches were closed and only had a porta-potty. Bought a trailer for her so I could bring her home to work on. (Paid for a slip as well). Putting the mast up and down was a pain single-handed. When I met my current wife we sailed on the O'Day for a year until we sold her and bought our current boat. (Catalina 30) The O'Day taught us a lot about boat maintenance and what we liked and did not like. (We also went to some boat shows, like Annapolis.) With the trailer, electronics and many other upgrades I probably spent an additional $3500, not counting the cost of expendables and intangibles. (Food, Fuel, Boat & Trailer registrations, Taxes, Slip rental, etc.) When I sold her I maybe got back about $5500.

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by TravelinLight

For a 5 year plan like that renting may make more financial sense.

Maybe. I haven't really seen much in the way of opportunities like that where I live, but maybe it's just more of an offline world in boating.

The “plan” has always been a lot more vague until recently, now that we’re in a spot to actually make it a short term goal, and my wife has never really been too keen on the idea of a boat as "home sweet home".

I realized after the help of everyone here I'm not really looking for a new home necessarily. The YouTube and Liveaboard lifestyles definitely have a lot of appeal, but if a boat was more of a “vacation-cabin” I think it would meet my own personal goals. A few sailing vacations, maybe a sabbatical for a few months to cruise the Med for a season. I think that suits us better and it's something the Significant Other is actually looking forward to. I’m not out to emulate Drake or Slocum.

And if I could sail both coasts for the price of a wide-load transport, even better.

I think the dream boat is maybe more Dragonfly 40 than Seawind 1260 if it’s not a full-time home.

So even if I’m not a big fan of the smaller Corsairs as far as accommodation goes, I think maybe that’s the boat for me. Not in a big rush though. I’ve contacted a few local schools and decided to get more time on the water. May or may not get certified first, but I’d like to get more time at a marina and around people who can help do what you guys have and tell me what I don’t know that I don’t know. And then I’ll be in a better position to make a decision on my starter boat in the next 3 to 12 months.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by TravelinLight

So if you sell it in 5 year and expect to lose 20k that is 4 k a year in cost. How many times a year will you actually use it? Not to mention the storage, insurance, maint, fiddly things?

For a 5 year plan like that renting may make more financial sense.

This. And I believe other's have said this previously.

Step back and think about how many days you will be able to spend on the boat. Not just fixing and working on the boat but actually having fun. Do the math on what that will cost vs renting.

The wife has pushed several times to buy a boat. Hey, I am lucky, and I know it. I have pushed back, and said, no. This is because if I count up the amount of time we have available to sail right now, it is very limited, and the amount of money it would cost to own the boat does not make any money sense. Owning a boat would impact our larger plan of living on a boat.

We are looking into renting from the sailing school we attended and going through the same calculation. We think we would be lucky to go sailing 8 trips, with each trip taking two days. So 16 days on the boat in the next 12 months. The school has a rental program which can save you some money if you go sailing enough vs just paying for each trip. The break even seems to be 16 trips. We wonder if we would be able to do that many trips. We want too, but work, weather and family can be a blocker.

Later,
Dan

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by dannc

This. And I believe other's have said this previously.

We'll be looking to get on the water at one of the local schools in June. Will definitely ask around about this option. Thanks.

[barnakiel]

I think buying a starter boat is a GREAT idea.


In places where you cannot rent a boat, you get one and sail it. Sell it when you outgrow it.


However 50k ... you know, I do not know your budget. To me it sounds an extremely good budget. Our boat was about 15k when we bought her, and then we sailed her "everywhere" (Europe to Australia, across the S and N Atlantic, etc.)


But I know there are many amazing daysailers worth 50k and above. If this is your league, then sure go get one. They are beauty to look at and I bet a dream to sail.


If you are at the start of the curve, consider a light dinghy perhaps as a viable alternative (especially if your home waters are warm). Many a good sailor started in Lasers and Sunfishes. These are easy to get, great learning platforms, and very easy to re-sell with minimum or no cash penalty.


To wrap it up, if you cannot or will not rent, buy something and SAIL it.


Good luck, fair winds,

b.