Is buying a Starter Boat a dumb idea?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

Yeah, I just threw the Morgan 26 out there since it was a small, affordable boat more in line with most of the feedback, that also has three berths. I don't know that it's really an option for us. My wife is not a fan of heeling or rolling at anchor so we've always assumed a multi.

How heavily invested are you in performance? More importantly, how heavily is your wife invested in performance?

If your wife is more focused on comfort...With $60k, there are a number of older catamaran options that will likely get you on the water with a lot more space and comfort for her. Downside is trailering, while possible is a lot less practical.

They won't for a second keep up with a lightly loaded tri though but if you are looking at eventually doing more long term cruising, they will give her a much better idea of what it's like to live on a boat...and if you load up the tri as if you are living on it, you will lose a lot of performance anyway.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

The used Corsairs look really appealing for a weekend/camping boat.

My main concern is financial. I have no idea how to get an honest read of the boat market since the only experience I have with it is used powerboats for lake fishing and towing kids on inflatables.

If I could buy something trailerable for say $50,000, maintain it well, clean it up, put perhaps $10,000 into upgrades and sell it three or four years later for $40,000 I think I'd feel like it was well worth the effort.

Does that sound like a dumb idea to you? Nobody can predict the future of course, but does your gut say "that'd be a hot item" or "that'd be a weight around your neck"?

No, it's not a dumb idea although you might find the FBoat to be everything you need for some time. Given your background and budget, a Corsair in the 24-28' range will do exactly what you're thinking it will do and be far more fun to sail than any of the alternatives mentioned.


Cheers,

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

I definitely recommend Columbia's. I weathered hurricane Ida in 2011 in mine, 150 miles offshore, 12-15 meter waves. We were fine. Knocked down many times, but never rolled.

Not a big fan of varnished wood. We're more IKEA. But that's a really good looking boat!

Pretty sure not for us though. Ditto on the Flicka 20. We like our little DIYer's truck, and anything over about 4,000lbs dry would mean having to upgrade to a half-ton.

Not the end of the world if that's what it takes, but replacing my truck makes some of these less of a bargain than they appear at first.

[AKA-None]

A starter boat is one you’re willing to have a resale value of zero. Go learn on it and have fun

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

Not a big fan of varnished wood. We're more IKEA. But that's a really good looking boat!

Are you referring to my current boat? She's a junk-rig, hence the wooden masts. The Columbia 27' (1979) was on an old profile I had here, attached to an email I no longer use. The joys of a junk rig are something I could write a book about, but perhaps not the easiest choice for a "starter boat", as much of what you might have learnt from bermudian rigs doesn't apply.

My old Columbia was bermudan rigged though, aluminium and GRP like most western rigs.

Edit - I did a quick google images search, to try and find a picture for you, but decided that you can easily do the same. I did however see that fin keel Columbia 27's exist, mine was a full keel. I definitely recommend full keel, but then my use was for cruising, not as a hobby.

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

How heavily invested are you in performance? More importantly, how heavily is your wife invested in performance?

I'm definitely more concerned about light air and avoiding motoring than I am top speed.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If your wife is more focused on comfort...With $60k, there are a number of older catamaran options that will likely get you on the water with a lot more space and comfort for her. Downside is trailering, while possible is a lot less practical.

If we could trailer an older Gemini between DFW and Galveston or South Padre we'd do it in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

They won't for a second keep up with a lightly loaded tri though but if you are looking at eventually doing more long term cruising, they will give her a much better idea of what it's like to live on a boat...and if you load up the tri as if you are living on it, you will lose a lot of performance anyway.

We fit pretty well in the Taxa Mantis. Besides air-conditioning, an inverter/charger, ~200lbs of battery, some solar and maybe a portable generator I'm not sure what we'd add. We carry all that in the trailer (minus the generator) with lots of room to spare, but then we don't have to worry about how the trailer sits in the water. We manage to fit 5 day's provisions inside an egg-crate and the 55L Dometic without much trouble.

Entertainment is limited to books and apps on our iPads, and our backpacking gear fills in the gaps for most of our needs. Even splurging on heavy foam mattresses (like our Exped MegaMat Duo 15 at 13.5lbs) we're still probably under 200lbs of personal gear, clothing, etc total between the four of us.

Total weight including persons, gear, galley kit and electronics including the inverter, batteries and solar is probably around 1,500lbs I'd estimate.

Do you have any advice on what "lightly loaded" would mean? I only seem to find lightship displacements in the spec sheets.

[Joyful Noise]

Shannon 28

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Are you referring to my current boat?

No, just the Columbia 27 interiors I could find on Google.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

No, just the Columbia 27 interiors I could find on Google.

Ah, ok. Well don't worry about the interior. In fact, if you want bang for your buck, the best solution is a shoddy interior. Interior varnish is fine, it's exterior varnish that is high maintenance. Use many coats good marine varnish inside and it will last a decade. 1960-80's boats are solid, and very few will have plastic interiors like a modern boat. But I guess if you are willing to pay 50k for a starter boat, you are probably not looking to do any work on it. I find the work extremely satisfying, but then I have the time to do it.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

I'm definitely more concerned about light air and avoiding motoring than I am top speed.

If we could trailer an older Gemini between DFW and Galveston or South Padre we'd do it in a heartbeat.

We fit pretty well in the Taxa Mantis. Besides air-conditioning, an inverter/charger, ~200lbs of battery, some solar and maybe a portable generator I'm not sure what we'd add. We carry all that in the trailer (minus the generator) with lots of room to spare, but then we don't have to worry about how the trailer sits in the water. We manage to fit 5 day's provisions inside an egg-crate and the 55L Dometic without much trouble.

Entertainment is limited to books and apps on our iPads, and our backpacking gear fills in the gaps for most of our needs. Even splurging on heavy foam mattresses (like our Exped MegaMat Duo 15 at 13.5lbs) we're still probably under 200lbs of personal gear, clothing, etc total between the four of us.

Total weight including persons, gear, galley kit and electronics including the inverter, batteries and solar is probably around 1,500lbs I'd estimate.

Do you have any advice on what "lightly loaded" would mean? I only seem to find lightship displacements in the spec sheets.

Keep in mind with a small travel trailer, except when it's raining, you can tell the kids to go play outside. Anchored out, they are still pretty much tethered to the boat. Plus I'm betting your trailer actually has more interior space than most small tris (We had a 28ft 5th wheel and it was more spacious than our 34ft gemini). They usually keep the main hull narrow to keep performance up which limits interior space.

4 people and even a modest amount of stuff for each is probably beyond "lightly loaded" for most of the small tris.

Not wanting a slip/mooring and keeping it trailerable conflicts with comfort for 4.

If you just want to cut down on slip fees, you could trailer a gemini but store in an RV lot near the coast. You would need to modify the mast to fold down but people have done that. Ours was about 10k lb loaded. Figure another 4k lb for a flatbed gooseneck trailer and most modern 3/4ton pickups can handle that. As long as it's short distance to a launch ramp, getting a permit is probably possible (need to check with TDOT). A little outside the box and a few hassles but....

Is the sailing aspect critical? Below is an interesting option for maximizing living space for a trailerable boat. Not real viable for offshore work but opens up a lot of interesting options.

Photos

[Pete_n_Ryan]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, IMO, no it is not a better idea! The thing being that without the initial practice and experience, it is highly likely that that first boat will not really be right for your actual sailing and hence you will not have it for a long time. Or, you will have it for a long time and hate the bloody thing that you are saddled with.

People without experience seem to think that they have the god given knowledge to make a rather complicated decision right out of the box. In all too many cases, they don't!

Jim

I am agree with just one note.
When I wanted get some skills in a new field, I was buying the top line equipment no matter what price. Film eq for example. My main reason was, if I do bad work I can't blame my equipment like "oh my lens or camera is too low quality", it just means that I did bad work, no excuses. This approach let me get somewhere. In other fields, I used same tactics. No matter what, equipment or surrounding myself with professionals, from producing films to real estate.

Another point, we don't know how long we will live. Tomorrow, some drunk fool may hit my car and I am done or that covid19 (for example, I almost died from it). What's the point to delay your dreams. If your ultimate goal something, just go and get it or figure out how to get it.

Other than that, realistically thinking I am agree with you. Your approach would be smarter and safer.

[ssmoot]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

4 people and even a modest amount of stuff for each is probably beyond "lightly loaded" for most of the small tris.

Can I ask what it is about the Corsair 37 that makes it unsuitable for routine trailering? Setup videos of the 31 make it look doable, but I can't find any for the 37.

EDIT: Nevermind. Dumb question. It has an almost 10' beam folded.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Is the sailing aspect critical? Below is an interesting option for maximizing living space for a trailerable boat. Not real viable for offshore work but opens up a lot of interesting options.

Photos

That's very neat. I would like to sail though.

You all have given me a lot to think about for sure. I think this thread is something I need to mull over for a few months.

I haven't even considered insurance yet. I get a life on the water would mean something like 1.5% to 2% of hull value. Is it the same for a trailered boat? Any good rules of thumb to estimate it?

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

EDIT: Nevermind. Dumb question. It has an almost 10' beam folded.

My Columbia 27' was almost 10' beam too. If you're looking for enough space for your family and trailerability then youre going to have to make some compromises.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

Thanks all. I very much appreciate the wisdom!

1. Myself, my wife, our 11yo son and 8yo daughter
2. Texas
3. Early 40’s

Our travel trailer is a Taxa Mantis to give you an idea. Doesn’t get much more compact than that and offer three berths outside of an a-frame trailer or Taxa Cricket. A Corsair 37/38 would be fairly luxurious in comparison. I enjoy ultralight hiking (hammocking ideally). I’m working on renovating our home a room at a time, basically rebuilding it from the studs up including insulation, drywall, electrical, plumbing, tile, etc. It’s slow and tedious, but I should have it wrapped up in a couple years at this rate. With that and upgrading the travel-trailer with 1260W of solar, a 3000kVA Victron Multiplus and 15kWh of LiFePO4 I’m (maybe naively) optimistic I’m ready to tackle the sorts of systems I might need to dig into on a boat.

I really hate paying rent on our toys, so while it might be a mistake, and I’m sure there are times I might regret it, I’m pretty dead set on something trailerable. One of the big appeals to the Mantis (that we love) was that it fit in our garage. I’ll be tackling fencing in our driveway next year, and we’ll have room for a 41’ trailer without too much of a challenge.

The big challenge isn’t paying for the boat. We live in a modest home and own modest vehicles. The real challenge is figuring out if boat-life is for us long-term, and putting ourselves in a position we can at least scale back work to properly enjoy it.

Since posting this my wife and I have discussed it, and I think maybe the Five Year Plan we’re on needs a rethink. Maybe we don’t plan to move aboard. Maybe instead we plan to own a vacation boat. The on-water version of our travel-trailer. And maybe that scratches the itch and we don’t feel the need for the big cat until we’re well and truly set up for retirement. Which could be 10 years at the current rate, or might be 15 years if we feel like we need a lifestyle that’s a little more extravagant.

I’d really like something that could get us to the Bahamas eventually, but I’m getting the feeling that the advice I’m hearing is in favor of getting a starter boat to our “starter boat”. And I’m thinking that’s probably good advice even if it’s not what I’d like to hear. Something more like a Corsair 24, MacGregor 26?

While we really enjoyed the couple overnight charters we’ve been on, the actual sailing is only one part of it. I think if picking up a cheap Laser and heading to the lake held any appeal we’d have done it by now. Like backpacking (love it) versus day hiking (meh)?

I have always been intrigued by the Corsair trimarans (and other boats of that ilk) but they seem to cost a bit more than 50k from what I've seen and they apparently are not something you want to launch and haul on a daily basis. Any trailerable boat will take some time to set up but the fact you won't be paying for a slip or mooring could well outweigh this for many. A trimaran may be too performance oriented if you're new to sailing as they are fast and you need to be very conservative with powering the boat as they can flip with too much sail. Maybe a more traditional day sailor would be better as they're cheap and you won't be out much if you don't like it or life gets in the way.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

I haven't even considered insurance yet. I get a life on the water would mean something like 1.5% to 2% of hull value. Is it the same for a trailered boat? Any good rules of thumb to estimate it?

You only need third-party insurance, which is about $5/foot/year if you shop around. Fully-comp isn't an option for me anyway, but if you want it then it is financially worth while to get an accredited sailing qualification first as the discount is significant. Though of course, there is a limit to which qualifications you can get if you don't have the blue-water experience to go with it.