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Old 20-10-2017, 18:01   #91
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

2010 Robertson & Caine Leopard 46 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 20-10-2017, 19:44   #92
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

Depending on the offer they will accept, it might be good deal for someone looking for project.
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Old 23-10-2017, 10:40   #93
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

Are we seeing any more of these Total Loss or damaged boats come online for sale?

I have noticed a handful but not as many as expected. Maybe we are a few weeks/months away from the bulk of these boats hitting the market?
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Old 23-10-2017, 13:00   #94
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

I have it on good authority that big boat yards down the island chain have already bought up a bunch of the total losses (in lots). The yard I spoke with said they will be shipped in, triaged, and then worked on. Some will become day charter boats for the local markets, others will be stripped and salvaged.

I'm guessing that %75 of the total loss boats will be sold in this manner (at least the catamarans).
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Old 24-10-2017, 06:21   #95
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

This is from the description on Yacht World:

'Round About' spent more than a week with both transforms on the main marina concrete bulkhead and fully afloat, with the bilge pumps keeping up with water ingress which entered via a 12" crack on her forward starboard hull just below the waterline(not a hole). Then, when the batteries ran flat, that starboard hull started to fill and over the following week she filled with water, including her starboard engine room (engine is still submerged as water remained in the engine room space but will soon be emptied and engine pickled at that time)

Ihave no idea why some of the words above are black.

It could be an extensive repair if rudders, sail drives, 1 engine, mast and rigging, forward hull, Both transoms, interior finishings and electronic components and probably all wiring and whatever else need to be replaced. The hard part is where to keep it and work on it. Clearly something like this would have to be a DIY project at least in part to avoid massive labor charges. Where could a project like this take place other than a boatyard? Are there properties in any of the VI for sale or rent that a few catamarans could be hauled to and be repaired and what would these properties rent or sell for. Anything listed is usually in the millions, I guess a makeshift boatyard consortium is what I am talking about. Could this work anywhere? USVI, BVI, Puerto Rico?
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Old 24-10-2017, 06:37   #96
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaangus View Post
This is from the description on Yacht World:

'Round About' spent more than a week with both transforms on the main marina concrete bulkhead and fully afloat, with the bilge pumps keeping up with water ingress which entered via a 12" crack on her forward starboard hull just below the waterline(not a hole). Then, when the batteries ran flat, that starboard hull started to fill and over the following week she filled with water, including her starboard engine room (engine is still submerged as water remained in the engine room space but will soon be emptied and engine pickled at that time)

Ihave no idea why some of the words above are black.

It could be an extensive repair if rudders, sail drives, 1 engine, mast and rigging, forward hull, Both transoms, interior finishings and electronic components and probably all wiring and whatever else need to be replaced. The hard part is where to keep it and work on it. Clearly something like this would have to be a DIY project at least in part to avoid massive labor charges. Where could a project like this take place other than a boatyard? Are there properties in any of the VI for sale or rent that a few catamarans could be hauled to and be repaired and what would these properties rent or sell for. Anything listed is usually in the millions, I guess a makeshift boatyard consortium is what I am talking about. Could this work anywhere? USVI, BVI, Puerto Rico?
In my view the only way to make this a bargain:
BOGOF: Buy one, get one free!

Negotiate price to 1/2 asking price and buy two identical boats with matching defects.
Rebuild one, salvage the other, sell what you don't need to set off the cost of things that you do need but have not budgeted for. And even then you will end up with something that is only somewhat cheaper than a typical used boat, but will be next to impossible to sell for a decent price due to its history.


However it could be a good (cheap) starting point for someone who wants to build something special that likely has no significant resale value anyway, like a solar / electric powered cat for local cruising.



Anyway, this is all just speculation. To find a decent boat and to find a spot to rebuild it requires one thing: Presence on the islands. Sitting behind the computer won't help much.

In my view its too late to find any decent deal. Local boatyard sharks have been circling around for weeks and have secured all potential candidates for rebuilds.
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Old 24-10-2017, 07:15   #97
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

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Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
In my view the only way to make this a bargain:
BOGOF: Buy one, get one free!

Negotiate price to 1/2 asking price and buy two identical boats with matching defects.
Rebuild one, salvage the other, sell what you don't need to set off the cost of things that you do need but have not budgeted for. And even then you will end up with something that is only somewhat cheaper than a typical used boat, but will be next to impossible to sell for a decent price due to its history.


However it could be a good (cheap) starting point for someone who wants to build something special that likely has no significant resale value anyway, like a solar / electric powered cat for local cruising.


Anyway, this is all just speculation. To find a decent boat and to find a spot to rebuild it requires one thing: Presence on the islands. Sitting behind the computer won't help much.

In my view its too late to find any decent deal. Local boatyard sharks have been circling around for weeks and have secured all potential candidates for rebuilds.
I agree with what you are saying except I would call it "2 identical boats with OPPOSING defects". It is probably never a good idea for an amateur to try to compete with pros especially when time is of the essence, rather the amateur would be better off perusing the scraps and formulating a plan and carefully weighing the pros and cons of such a ridiculous idea. A lot of these rebuilders could turn into liabilities in the next year. Yes, It would be very difficult to do much of anything from behind a computer screen and there lies the problem.
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Old 24-10-2017, 07:20   #98
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

It's currently under offer. I hope it turns out to be a dream come true for who ever buys it.
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Old 24-10-2017, 08:32   #99
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I'm wondering how much they'll be asking for the upside down Sunreef 62?
Coming from this 65ft trimaran owner who bought a vessel that was only demasted and suffered no hull or interior damage:

1. You would need to act very fast to have anything to salvage. Once you have to add replacing two engines to the long list of repairs forget it.

2. Don't think like you can ever get the vessel back up to anywhere near what a used Sunreef is worth.

3. On Yacht World there is a 2011 Sunreef 62 for $1.1mm.

4. Assume you can get the vessel to 75% of this value if you did a total overhaul, new rig, new sails, new interior and two new engines.

5. Perhaps, just perhaps if you could get this Sunreef for around $100k to $200k you would be break even. You would also be out 2-3 years to accomplish this.

6. 75% of $1.1 mm is $825k.

7. Now start your estimate to replace nearly everything.

....

An alternate tactic with this specific vessel is to just get it uprighted, patched, and pop in two reconditioned Yanmars. Then call it a motor yacht. Of course you still have to do all the interior work.

If you could get it for $100-$200k you would have yourself a motor yacht for a total investment of about $500k and only 1.5-2 years.

However, for that same $500k you could buy Pipeline 2 which is a fantastic trimaran.

.....

Conclusion the only value is parts.

Therefore, buy for $100-$200k. Take out engines. Recondition and sell. Sell off all winches, and clean sails and sell. Again break even but only out 6 months of work.
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Old 24-10-2017, 14:06   #100
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

That's a bit strange way of thinking (and calculating). If someone thinks that he can fix salvage boat by doing nothing (just paying for all the work), he'd better think twice.
All of such easy projects will be ether fixed by insurance companies or sold to "friends" or VIP-buyers.
The rest - only for these who can do MOST if not all work DIY. That will require lots of knowledge, lots of time and lots of money. BUT! There will be literally ABUNDANCE of used parts from scrapped boats, I'm sure this will drive used parts prices down big time.

Regarding the "reconditioned engines". If you're not even able to rebuild engine yourself - these salvage boats not for you, period.
Regarding that Sunreef 62 "Catsy" - it was listed for sale at $1.05M. There's much more damage on it than "just dismasted" - 30 tons flipped over and landed on it's roof.
FYI, good 2007 Sunreef 62 can be purchased for less than $780K.
"Catsy" definitely can be fixed, but not simple way. DIY, parts fabricated instead of purchasing from Sunreef etc. etc. No, it won't have $1M value after it's finished. But these Sunreef's on the market don't have that value either, they just sitting on the market for years without buyers.
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Old 25-10-2017, 20:33   #101
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

The larger cats are likely a different scenario than 40-45 ft mono's. These can be transported out of the islands, especially if they have lost the mast.

These may be a better deal for the DIY fixers....
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Old 25-10-2017, 23:43   #102
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

I guess, boats / cats that have minor damages will be repaired by the owner / insurance, only the "total loss" vessels will be salvaged, but they will have a lot of issues. Insurances do not pay a brand new boat if only the mast was broken.

So you get what you pay for plus some profit for the seller.

I am not saying, you cannot salvage parts or rebuild a hull yourself. Thats doable, but if you hire a company to do the complete rebuild, you will end up with higher costs than buying a new boat and still will have a vessel with a hurricane total loss history.

I doubt, an insurer will cover this afterwards in a proper way, you also would probably not be able to contract it into charter management. There will be always a higher risk of structural weakness etc. If you want to sell it, you will have to accept much lower prices....

Insurances are quite clever and experienced regarding valuation of damages.
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Old 07-11-2017, 18:23   #103
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

Speaking to CatNewBee's post and the few others above that mention insurance. While at the recent October Annapolis Boat show I inquired to a few of the insurance folks who seemed to be 'idling in their booths' when their phones weren't lighting up (frequently). Specifically I asked how they would insure one of the wrecked but salvaged boats that people were racing to the islands to get a deal on. To the letter almost everyone of them that i spoke with said they would not be writing insurance for anything that was hurricane damaged and resold. A few mentioned liability due to further unknown/ unseen damages that were not repaired even after being refit. Caveat Emptor folks who seek to buy should call some insurance folks before the ink on their check dries IMO. I often see some of the 'Marine Service Provider' tags under members avatars here, wondering if any are marine insurance brokers/agents and can speak to what I just posted.
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Old 07-11-2017, 18:26   #104
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Re: Irma and the local boat market

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The larger cats are likely a different scenario than 40-45 ft mono's. These can be transported out of the islands, especially if they have lost the mast.

These may be a better deal for the DIY fixers....
This would be an ideal time for a vessel moving ship such as 'Seven Seas' or the others to be positioning themselves to the islands. Then load up a full ship full of boats to transport back to the US Mainland, where new owners could find a way to get them closer to home to spend the refit time.
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