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Old 04-06-2023, 18:38   #1
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imbalanced Tartan 24C

I noticed that my recently purchased Tartan 34 C is slightly imbalanced when in the water. I am worried that I have ~90 liters of sea water in the ballast space on the backboard side. Filling the water tank on starboard did not help much. I wondered if the imbalance (~3 degree heeling to backboard) could come from replacing the original atomic 4 engine with a Universal M4-30 diesel some 20 or 30 years ago. This is somewhat supported by the discovery the fact that the keel footed mast is adjusted to almost touch the cabin roof on the starboard side. Does anybody know about such imbalance?
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Old 04-06-2023, 19:41   #2
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Re: imbalanced Tartan 24C

You give Far too little information for us to even guess at what the "problem" may be. I doubt that you have real problem, but read my comments below, then get back to us and we'll get you sorted out :-)!

In any case, what makes you think that a 3º list is a problem at all?

90 litres of water in a tank, weighs just about the same as a grown man. A man moving from one side of the boat to the other makes no significant difference to the trim of a five ton boat.

A Tartan36C — "C" for "centerboard" — must necessarily have the bilge partitioned by the centerboard trunk. You do NOT have a "ballast space", you have a "bilge". The bilge is NOT meant to hold ballast, It is meant to collect water that accidentally gets into the boat, and the boat should have a pump - a "bilge pump" — to pump that water out so you don't get wet feet, or anything else!

What you term "backboard" is called "port" in English. "Backbord" and "Steuerbord" are perfectly correct terminology in German. In English, it's "port" and "starboard".

What you say you have, is not a "heel". It is a "list". A boat that "leans to one side" when lying still is said to "have a list" or "to be listing". A sailboat that "leans to one side" due to the pressure of wind in the sails is said to "heel". A boat like yours will sail best when it is heeling 10 or 12 degrees rather than zero degrees.

Replacing an engine, even with a quite different engine, does not make a boat list.

Your mast is not "keel footed". It is "stepped on the keel" or, in other words, "keel stepped". The mast should, in the thwartships plane, be absolutely perpendicular to the boat's design waterline plane. If it isn't, you adjust your "standing rigging" ("shouds" and "topmast stay") until it is. The simple way to verify that it is, is to measure CAREFULLY the distance from the "truck" (the top of the mast) to the "toe rail" that runs along the outboard side of the deck. The points on each toerail, port and starboard, to which you measure need to be PRECISELY the same distance aft of the stemhead.

Bonne chance — Alles Gute :-)

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Old 05-06-2023, 06:38   #3
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Re: imbalanced Tartan 24C

Umm, the Tartan is a mono and this is the multihull forum.
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Old 05-06-2023, 08:19   #4
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Re: imbalanced Tartan 24C

Hm... Never heard of a multi Tartan. The all-knowing Ms. Google hasn't either, as far as I can see. I just asked her again, and she shook her head quite vehemently, so give us a ref, plz!

There IS a Tartan 24. A mono. Basically a souped-up version of the venerable Cal20 that is now something like three-score years old.

But the OP has fallen victim to a typo, methinks. In one place or the other: In the heading the boat is said to be a Tartan24C and in the body-copy it is said to be a Tartan34C

A minor point: A 24-foot multi is not likely to be a tri, though there is no accounting for some people's bizarre desires. So if we ARE talking about a multi, it's most likely a cat. If so, how could it have a "keel-stepped" mast?

Why don't we just ask the OP to post a photo or two of the beast?

All the best!

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Old 05-06-2023, 10:30   #5
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Re: imbalanced Tartan 24C

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
A minor point: A 24-foot multi is not likely to be a tri, though there is no accounting for some people's bizarre desires.
i have a 24 foot trimaran designed by Cross. i do not consider it bizarre in any way, by multihull standards at least. Perhaps you do tho.

Perhaps fewer English lessons and more help for this guy is in order?

i wud suggest that you remove the 90 liters of water ballast and see if the trim corrects itself. i doubt that the diesel wud affect the trim that much, altho i cud be wrong if the engine is next to the centerboard case rather than aft of it.

Have you looked carefully for other sources of off center weight? Is the hull cored or solid fiberglass? Perhaps significant water in the core on one side only cud bring about such an imbalance?
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Old 05-06-2023, 10:57   #6
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Re: imbalanced Tartan 24C

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Originally Posted by longjonsilver View Post
i have a 24 foot trimaran designed by Cross. i do not consider it bizarre in any way, by multihull standards at least. Perhaps you do tho.

Perhaps fewer English lessons and more help for this guy is in order?

i wud suggest that you remove the 90 liters of water ballast and see if the trim corrects itself. i doubt that the diesel wud affect the trim that much, altho i cud be wrong if the engine is next to the centerboard case rather than aft of it.

Have you looked carefully for other sources of off center weight? Is the hull cored or solid fiberglass? Perhaps significant water in the core on one side only cud bring about such an imbalance?
Dear Longjohn silver,
sorry for the confusion I caused by my question. The Tartan 34 C is a centerboard monohull built in the 70-ties. The boat "listens" as I no learned to port. The ballast space is divided by the bilge for the centerboard. The engine is mounted off-center on the port side. so changing the engine to a heavier one could cause the boat to "listen" and that would not worry me. I am a afraid I have a leak in the hollow where the centerboard resides that would fill up any available space with water. (There is no water coming into the boat or bilge, though). The thought about water getting caught in the core is interesting. I think these classic plastic were built with solid thick fiberglass. Maybe somebody knows.
Thanks guys for responding. I don't mind the "English lessons".
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Old 05-06-2023, 11:57   #7
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Re: imbalanced Tartan 24C

fjweke said: "The engine is mounted off-center on the port side. so changing the engine to a heavier one could cause the boat to "listen" and that would not worry me. I am a afraid I have a leak in the hollow where the centerboard resides that would fill up any available space with water. (There is no water coming into the boat or bilge, though)."

Aha! Yes - I hadn't noticed the the engine was offset. That was SOMETIMES done in order to improve the arrangement of the furniture ("the appointments") in the cabin.

The original engine in these boats was an Atomic 4 gas-pot. Very light, and a potential problem you don't want to have in a boat, because gasoline ("benzin") fumes are heavier than air and will gather in the bilge of the boat if there is a leak in the system such as a faulty carburetor. I have seen boat burn to the waterline because they had gas engines. People exchanged them for diesels which are substantially heavier, so this MAY be your answer to the list. But as I said: It is trivial. Don't even worry about it. The boat doesn't care. The reason for the change is one of safety — diesel oil doesn't give off explosive fumes.

By the way "to listen" is English for "zu hören". "To list" is English for "zu krängen". Note that there is no "en" at the end :-)

"The hollow where the centerboard resides" is called the centerboard "trunk". This trunk will fill up with water to the same level as the water is on the outside of the hull of the boat. That is as it should be. Your trunk will be made so water cannot slosh over the top of it into the bilge. However, there will be a "pin" (actually a bolt, "ein Gelenkbolzen") that carries the weight of the centerboard. This pin will necessarily be located below the water line and it is therefore necessary to include maintenance of the pin where it comes through the walls of the centerboard trunk in the boat's maintenance schedule, lest water should come into the boat that way.

If you are worried about water having gotten into the "lay-up", the "plastic", of the hull, you can check that with a moisture meter next time the boat is out of the water for bottom painting. Water ingress is never catastrophic and is repairable when it does occur.

So enjoy your boat :-)

Let us know how you get on with handling her. If you have not sailed before, a 34 might be a bit of a handful, but the Tartans are good boats and you'll be safe enough. As for how to sail her, just come back to us if you need to. Or even if you DON'T need to, but just want to.

Lots of sailing instructors here, myself included. :-)

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