If Gunboats Can Have This, Why Can’t I?

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

All the Sunsail and Moorings Leopard cats I have been on have this system, including ours. I just assumed it was a safer option for inexperienced credit card sailors. I have only sailed this system as our previous and current Leopards have it. I have always thought that when we take her out the program I would put a traveler if the roof structure could handle it. However I have gotten used to it now so probably won’t bother. Besides, it’s seems pretty idiot proof, so it suites me

Just thought that I would add that I pretty much sail single handed. Admiral offers plenty advice and moral support!

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Ive never sailed one so it's hypothetical for me and I'll accept what you say but how do the lines work DDW, similar problem in light winds, they must be all over the Targa or with the very small angles, maybe 15-20°, how do you control the boom accurately when close hauled.

Close hauled it's zero problem. You sheet the windward sheet tight to bring the boom end close to midship.
Than use the leeward sheet to control the tightness of the leech.

Downwind you have more lines around, but you can reduce it by putting a Dyneema strop between the deck and the boom in such a way that the "floating block" is almost at the boom in the most closed hauled position.

[chris95040]

A couple folks are claiming the traveler setup gives you more control of boom location…. Is that true?

Thinking about it in two dimensions, this plane of points where you may want your boom-end, doesn’t the two mainsheet setup give you full authority over that space? (At least in between the port and starboard attachments, I guess maybe it gets weird beyond that?)

And in fact, doesn’t the perpendicular, single-attachment control of a traveler and mainsheet result in way more lateral wiggle-room, whereas the dueling main sheets definitively place the boom-end location as a function of the two sheet lengths?

I do understand there are a lot of important practical benefits to the traveler, just spitballing.

[bensolomon]

I've sailed a few Leopards with this arrangement. It works, but there is a learning curve because you have to tighten one side, you have to release the other side. And on the ones I sailed, with only three winches, there is a fair amount of effort to wrap and unwrap lines from the winches.

Once I became acclimated to this system, it worked adequately. I was on a charter cruising Leopard cat, so not really sailing for performance. In fact, I got smoked downwind by a mono with a poled out jib sailing from Huahine to Bora Bora two years ago.

[chris95040]

Also, to the OP, it seems like a decision you could change your mind about later?

If it’s easier, and it isn’t going to interfere with a Bimini or something when it’s hiked out downwind, I’d definitely start there and take the traveler off my todo list.

[LittleWing77]

The absolute BEST part of this thread, Chotu, is that it seems you may have turned a corner and are leaning towards finishing your boat and going sailing!!

Right on.

I'm so happy for you.
Fair, fair winds,
LittleWing77

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Also, to the OP, it seems like a decision you could change your mind about later?

If it’s easier, and it isn’t going to interfere with a Bimini or something when it’s hiked out downwind, I’d definitely start there and take the traveler off my todo list.

Exactly. I’m really attracted to the simplicity of it. Also of course it weighs less. I just am having some trouble picturing if it works as well as a traveler or not. It seems like it might, because the two mainsheets, the leech and the boom strongly define the place the end of the boom can be. Just like your previous post. It seems even more accurate than a traveler. But then, I feel like I might be missing something that’s why I started the thread.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

The absolute BEST part of this thread, Chotu, is that it seems you may have turned a corner and are leaning towards finishing your boat and going sailing!!

Right on.

I'm so happy for you.
Fair, fair winds,
LittleWing77

Awwww. Thank you!

Yes! My plan is to continue with the boat!

My strategy of doing what Olympic athletes do to improve oxygen flow to their muscles seems to have worked. A summer of cardio at 10,000ft elevation has really improved things. I was able to (I think) increase blood flow (at the capillary level) to the dead part of the heart and well... like the little Monty python quote, it said, “I’m not dead yet”. It’s VERY hypo kinetic, but is moving again. Ejection fraction up to 50%. So as long as I’m very careful to not be exposed to any more of these chemicals and pollution, keep at least 30 mins of cardio a day and keep fat out of my diet, I shouldn’t have another heart attack. That means the boat is back on the table.

Plenty to think about regarding if I want to travel globally with it or not. But I’ll think about that when it’s done. It may just be for East Coast USA, Caribbean and Canada fun and that’s just fine.

[singlespeed]

Cheaper for the manufacturer than a regular traveller assembly. Far too much line to replace and get underfoot when tacking and jibing. Very hard for new crew to use effectively and a lot more work for the singlehandedly when tacking.

[boat driver]

Reverse engineer what you want to do with the sail leach. The systems all have plus and minus reasons- no one system does it all.
Travelers are often expensive, mechanically full of failure points, and often placed in the most inconvenient location. But they generally permit very precise control of the main leach which is needed on racing/high performance vessels. When the cars fail, the spectacular explosions' of ball bearings is not often recoverable for repair.

Blocks and tackle systems generally allow acceptable controls with ease of placement, but often lack specific angles for controlling sail shape without barber hauling for long passage. The negatives are that much more sheet line length and quite often a tangled hanging mess catching on every opportunity when tacking. Long haul and exotic places gear failure is relatively easy to repair and replace.

last, in the pursuit of vessel weight, often the traveler design requires structural stiffness and strength over the entire track length, therefore, the two points of the block and tackle are the only places of strengthen.

It is a choice vs singular solution.

[Cavalier MK2]

I've used a double mainsheet, precise end boom control with a bit of effort. What I would up with is a centerline mainsheet with end boom preventers to the amas on my tri instead of a vang. Precise, safe and faster. I got tired of rigging the vang for a preventer, this skips the temptation to not rig on a short run and adds positive control to jibing as well as holding the boom down better. A bit more spaghetti but the preventer doesn't need anything more than turning blocks as the mainsheet is used for muscle.

[Jetx]

The double mainsheet arrangement also makes gybing safer and easier. Going into a gybe, the leeward sheet (new windward sheet) is already tensioned, so when the stern comes through the wind, the boom barely budges… and you simply ease the sheet to let the boom come across completely under control.

It can be a little fiddlier than a traveler to set angle and twist. You do have absolute control to set the boom anywhere you want, just as with a traveler, but you may have to make a few more trial-and-error adjustments to get it exactly where you want it. After a little time with the boat, you get pretty good at hitting your desired position without much back and forth.

If you do go with this setup though, you absolutely need a dedicated winch for each mainsheet (winch sharing would be a nightmare).

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Jetx

The double mainsheet arrangement also makes gybing safer and easier. Going into a gybe, the leeward sheet (new windward sheet) is already tensioned, so when the stern comes through the wind, the boom barely budges… and you simply ease the sheet to let the boom come across completely under control.

It can be a little fiddlier than a traveler to set angle and twist. You do have absolute control to set the boom anywhere you want, just as with a traveler, but you may have to make a few more trial-and-error adjustments to get it exactly where you want it. After a little time with the boat, you get pretty good at hitting your desired position without much back and forth.

If you do go with this setup though, you absolutely need a dedicated winch for each mainsheet (winch sharing would be a nightmare).

So you don’t think a system like this would work well with the double mainsheet? I’m using an electric winch for that.

[tcpbob]

i think the arrangement shown is what i call a horse. i think it makes good sense. a track and car system on a cat still needs a preventer to keep the boom under control so you wind up with a horse arrangement anyway. my cat has a track but if anything on it breaks... i will likely make a horse out of it,

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Jetx

The double mainsheet arrangement also makes gybing safer and easier. Going into a gybe, the leeward sheet (new windward sheet) is already tensioned, so when the stern comes through the wind, the boom barely budges… and you simply ease the sheet to let the boom come across completely under control.

It can be a little fiddlier than a traveler to set angle and twist. You do have absolute control to set the boom anywhere you want, just as with a traveler, but you may have to make a few more trial-and-error adjustments to get it exactly where you want it. After a little time with the boat, you get pretty good at hitting your desired position without much back and forth.

If you do go with this setup though, you absolutely need a dedicated winch for each mainsheet (winch sharing would be a nightmare).

I had a single manual winch on my leopard 44 for the 2 mainsheets. It really was not an issue. But yes. 2 would be nice.