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Old 17-04-2013, 08:57   #31
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

If you have a composting head you can just take out the trash and avoid the pumpout station altogether.

Keeping some board down for docking is the usual approach, keels do the same thing giving a pivot point as well as handling the windage.
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Old 17-04-2013, 09:34   #32
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

My 2700 lb (modified) F-27 trimaran is a leaf on the water. I have to think carefully about how I dock her or whether I'll even attempt tight quarter. In her case, it's less about beam and more about WEIGHT vs. windage.

In the case of my F-27...
--maneuvering under power, yes, I want board down as much as possible.
--at anchor, she lays quite well with everything up because her bridle is 2x/beam (ergo each leg of the bridle is 19' long). I've had a shorter bridle, or no bridle, and she'll snatch an anchor right out the ground.
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Old 17-04-2013, 13:15   #33
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

I agree about having everything up at anchor. It lets the boat swing head to wind instead of sailing around the mooring. I've noticed the same in light monos except there a compromise is needed as some board/keel helps with the roll.
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Old 17-04-2013, 13:45   #34
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Thanks, I'm only now getting multihulls, but thanks for the suggestion. In my defence, I was responding to a post which mentioned the boards making the boat into a "leaf on the water"
The "leaf on the water" behavior is more of an issue manuevering under power at low speeds w boards up (which reduces lateral resistance). Boards partially down helps. Same thing happens on small planning hull power vessels.

Most multis (cruising class boats anyway) actually dont tend to sail at anchor -- particularly w a bridle rigged. Im not sure how this misinformation got started but Ive even seen it in print. Sailing at anchor is more of an issue w performance oriented monos like my H33...which was not designed to sit still...its fast even at anchor!
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Old 17-04-2013, 13:50   #35
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

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The "leaf on the water" behavior is more of an issue manuevering under power at low speeds w boards up (which reduces lateral resistance). Boards partially down helps. Same thing happens on small planning hull power vessels.

Most multis actual dont tend to sail at anchor. Im not sure how this misinformation got started but Ive even seen it in print. Sailing at anchor is more of an issue w performance oriented monos like my H33...which was not designed to sit still...its fast even at anchor!
Yes, I have only read about it, but haven't actually seen it on a multi, other than weathervaning like the powerboaters. I have seen multihullers talk about their own boat doing it at anchor. But after you guys mentioned a bridle, I have to admit I have no clue if they were bridle-less or what else was up.
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Old 17-04-2013, 13:59   #36
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
The "leaf on the water" behavior is more of an issue manuevering under power at low speeds w boards up (which reduces lateral resistance). Boards partially down helps. Same thing happens on small planning hull power vessels.

Most multis (cruising class boats anyway) actually dont tend to sail at anchor -- particularly w a bridle rigged. Im not sure how this misinformation got started but Ive even seen it in print. Sailing at anchor is more of an issue w performance oriented monos like my H33...which was not designed to sit still...its fast even at anchor!

We're a relatively light weight cruising cat, and recently the owners of a steel mono which was anchored near us commented on how little we were sailing around at anchor, compared to them. Particularly when the wind was against the tide.
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Old 17-04-2013, 14:02   #37
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We're a relatively light weight cruising cat, and recently the owners of a steel mono which was anchored near us commented on how little we were sailing around at anchor, compared to them. Particularly when the wind was against the tide.
Yes, wind against tide is a whole different ball game...multis can do very strange stuff then.
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Old 17-04-2013, 17:01   #38
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

Information is never misinformation. I've noticed a difference between cats and tris at anchor, the cat is more like a dock and the tri more like a light mono. Especially with low immersion floats, the central hull tends to give a axis for swing. Even a short bridle at the main bow is enough to reduce the effect. Cruising if the wind is less than 20 knots the anchor on one side is enough, breezing past that a bridle is necessary on the Nicol. For a fast rig I tie another line to the main rode with a camel hitch and lead to another cleat.

In a crowded anchorage I've found hanging a bucket from the stern is enough to keep a tri moving like the monos in the current versus wind department.
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Old 17-04-2013, 17:13   #39
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

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Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Information is never misinformation. I've noticed a difference between cats and tris at anchor, the cat is more like a dock and the tri more like a light mono. Especially with low immersion floats, the central hull tends to give a axis for swing. Even a short bridle at the main bow is enough to reduce the effect. Cruising if the wind is less than 20 knots the anchor on one side is enough, breezing past that a bridle is necessary on the Nicol. For a fast rig I tie another line to the main rode with a camel hitch and lead to another cleat.

In a crowded anchorage I've found hanging a bucket from the stern is enough to keep a tri moving like the monos in the current versus wind department.
Excellent information! Thank you so very much! I'm soaking up as much as possible before hiring a tri to try things myself. The more I know at that stage, the better I will be able to know what to look for.

I thought I had made the choice to stay in monohulls for the rest of my life, but I'm finding that most of my resistance to multis have been based on me being unsure of how to handle certain situations. I'm glad to hear a tri behaves sort of like a monohull in some circumstances, at least that's familiar to me
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Old 18-04-2013, 00:34   #40
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Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

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Yes, wind against tide is a whole different ball game...multis can do very strange stuff then.

Thing is, it was the MONO that was doing strange stuff. We generally point into the wind, unless the wind is very light, or the tide very strong. We can improve this more by lifting our rudders too. Heavier boats, or those with keels are more influenced by the tides, so will point into the tide, but can sail forward over their anchor if the wind is against the tide.

Or in a across the tide they "tack" and sail back and forth which is what this guy's mono was doing.
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Old 18-04-2013, 05:00   #41
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post

Thing is, it was the MONO that was doing strange stuff. We generally point into the wind, unless the wind is very light, or the tide very strong. We can improve this more by lifting our rudders too. Heavier boats, or those with keels are more influenced by the tides, so will point into the tide, but can sail forward over their anchor if the wind is against the tide.

Or in a across the tide they "tack" and sail back and forth which is what this guy's mono was doing.
Ah, misread your original post, but yes like this mono was doing, monos which are predisposed to sailing at anchor tend to tack (like my H33 does). Typical cruising cats w fixed keels and deckhouses tend to respond to the current until the wind catches the usually flat aft side of the deckhouse and then they sail forward and repeat the cycle. Ive watch my W35 (and other cats) do this repeatedly with wind and current 180d opposed.

In strong opposing conditions lifting boards and rudders should break this cycle.
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