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02-02-2018, 11:45
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,042
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Your definition of good life is my definition of pure hell! I don't want all the shoreside amenities and their demanding upkeep on my boat. Been there done that and never again! However I also respect others that choose to have and use all the shoreside amenities as long as there running of their generator doesn't interfere with my peace and quiet.
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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It's funny - your idea of pure hell is having a well equipped comfortable cruiser - whereas my idea of hell is my better half not having access to such things (and yes I fix every little bit that goes wrong - keeps my hand in and each different breakdown is a new and interesting journey
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02-02-2018, 11:52
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,268
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean Counter
It's funny - your idea of pure hell is having a well equipped comfortable cruiser - whereas my idea of hell is my better half not having access to such things (and yes I fix every little bit that goes wrong - keeps my hand in and each different breakdown is a new and interesting journey
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Thank god my better half agrees with me and enjoys the lack of the so called "good life" on the boat! I had to much of the new and interesting journeys on our fully equipped cat, here's to boredom!😁
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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02-02-2018, 11:53
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Martinique
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 2,298
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleman
If you want to have a good life on the high seas most boaters will want good heating and air conditioning as a minimum. Most will want full size refers and freezers with an array of kitchen appliances, and washers and dryers. AND the ability to take a hot water shower daily using fresh water.
These needs will never be supported by a few hundred watts of solar panels and automotive generators on a 40 HP diesel.
When you have sailed many days near the equator, you can really appreciate amenities.
I guess the real question is which end of the boating use do you want to be on?
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This actually made me spit out my beer. I could be completely wrong, but this entire statement makes me think you are either a dock queen, or an "internet cruiser". I would love to hear where and how long you have cruised?
You keep saying "Most"... However, my 2 years of cruising here in the Caribbean have shown me those things are the exception. Sure we have some cruising friends with those amenities, but they are definately the minority. This statement here " Most will want full size refers and freezers with an array of kitchen appliances, and washers and dryers. AND the ability to take a hot water shower daily using fresh water." is complete BS. Hell even our biggest budget cruising friends don't have this stuff. Looking around Rodney Bay right now, there are only a handful of boats (out of about 200) that could even fit a full size fridge or freezer. Why the hell would you need heating near the equator?
As to standard cruising fridges and freezers, fresh HOT water showers, and small kitchen applicances (like blenders), that can ABSOLUTELY be acheived on solar alone.
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02-02-2018, 11:56
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East of the river CT
Boat: Oday Mariner 19 , Four Winns Marquis 16 OB, Kingfisher III
Posts: 657
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Your definition of good life is my definition of pure hell! I don't want all the shoreside amenities and their demanding upkeep on my boat. Been there done that and never again! However I also respect others that choose to have and use all the shoreside amenities as long as there running of their generator doesn't interfere with my peace and quiet.
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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Ya know I was shocked a few months ago talking to a cruiser who first circumnavigated back in the 70's on a wooden boat. He told me he considers a Gen and AC mandatory for cruising extended periods in tropical climes these days and advises most world cruisers he consults with these days to have them.
He basically said he found it was a health of crew issue in the south pacific.
I think that's a bit extreme but I think lots of people would agree with him.
__________________
mysite: Colinism.com
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02-02-2018, 12:02
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,268
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin A
Ya know I was shocked a few months ago talking to a cruiser who first circumnavigated back in the 70's on a wooden boat. He told me he considers a Gen and AC mandatory for cruising extended periods in tropical climes these days and advises most world cruisers he consults with these days to have them.
He basically said he found it was a health of crew issue in the south pacific.
I think that's a bit extreme but I think lots of people would agree with him.
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And that's why I said I respect others choices, but don't have to personally agree with them.
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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02-02-2018, 12:13
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#21
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Yes yes yes
No need at all for a dedicated genset.
And with LFP, if motoring more than a few times a week, no need for any solar either.
Just be aware a big alt can use 25-30 HP, and once you go over 100+A actual output, get a pro, plain Vee belt won't handle the torque without slipping, dust everywhere.
Serpentine multi-V should be fine for most HO alts, but maybe have to go toothed like a timing belt once past 300A.
Chain drives are noisy.
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02-02-2018, 12:15
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#22
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Watermakers and holding plate refrigeration systems can also be run off the same engine(s) rathet than using battery-stored energy.
Short engine runs, then complete silence other than wind and waves 8-)
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02-02-2018, 12:25
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East of the river CT
Boat: Oday Mariner 19 , Four Winns Marquis 16 OB, Kingfisher III
Posts: 657
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
Yes yes yes
No need at all for a dedicated genset.
And with LFP, if motoring more than a few times a week, no need for any solar either.
Just be aware a big alt can use 25-30 HP, and once you go over 100+A actual output, get a pro, plain Vee belt won't handle the torque without slipping, dust everywhere.
Serpentine multi-V should be fine for most HO alts, but maybe have to go toothed like a timing belt once past 300A.
Chain drives are noisy.
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Always liked this for over the top Alternator charging.
https://www.setsail.com/fpb-78-batte...rging-details/
__________________
mysite: Colinism.com
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02-02-2018, 12:29
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, California - Read about our circumnavigation at www.rutea.com
Boat: Contest 48
Posts: 1,056
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
A vessel's electrical consumption is a personal choice: What appliances are used and for how long, acceptable state of battery discharge, underway or stationary, lighting preferences, etc. Many cruising sailboats have very low amp hour draws yet some have much higher. Anyone trying to determine the best method for supplying their needs should perform an analysis to assess their anticipated draw. If your current draw is low, perhaps solar panels and deep cycle batteries is sufficient. If it's high, perhaps you'll need high-output alternators, a genset, solar panels, tow generator or a combination thereof.
We have very high electrical consumption on our boat and wind up running our genset anywhere from two to four hours per day. Solar panels alone won't meet our needs. My point is that boats and owners do vary. I caution on suggesting a solution for someone if you are not aware of their needs.
Fair winds and calm seas.
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02-02-2018, 12:43
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleman
If you want to have a good life on the high seas most boaters will want good heating and air conditioning as a minimum. Most will want full size refers and freezers with an array of kitchen appliances.......
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Of the cruisers we've met, and we have over 100 boat cards, only a couple have had air conditioning, (which were for use in marinas) and only a few have had heating which was diesel fired anyway.
To say "most" is a huge exaggeration.
The other "necessary" appliances CAN in fact be run from solar most of the time.
Large output alternators, or in our case a small portable generator making up any shortfall in prolonged cloudy periods.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"
John McEnroe
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02-02-2018, 12:59
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,480
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Be careful assuming you can charge fast with two engines and two alternators going to one battery bank. One regulator will read the voltage provided from the other alternator and not ramp up it's own alternator. You must be set up properly to charge with two alternators.
I removed a good Northern Lights gen set from my cat when I bought it.
I added dual 100 amp alternators. The nice thing was, I'm not a hardcore sailor, so when the boat got down to ~3.5 knots sailing, I would run the leeward engine at high idle or so, boosting the speed a lot, boosting the pointing ability by 15 degrees or more, and charging batteries or making water from my engine drive maker.
Doing that, the fuel usage was almost not measurable.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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02-02-2018, 13:46
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,042
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako
Be careful assuming you can charge fast with two engines and two alternators going to one battery bank. One regulator will read the voltage provided from the other alternator and not ramp up it's own alternator. You must be set up properly to charge with two alternators.
I removed a good Northern Lights gen set from my cat when I bought it.
I added dual 100 amp alternators. The nice thing was, I'm not a hardcore sailor, so when the boat got down to ~3.5 knots sailing, I would run the leeward engine at high idle or so, boosting the speed a lot, boosting the pointing ability by 15 degrees or more, and charging batteries or making water from my engine drive maker.
Doing that, the fuel usage was almost not measurable.
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Interesting. On our boat with slight weather helm the autopilot holds the wheel slightly offset to lee to counteract the weather helm. If we run the lee engine it makes it worse and the autopilot needs to compensate further thus causing drag on the rudders. If we run the windward engine the helm almost centers, thus reducing drag. We Fold the lee prop.
Yes motor sailing in light air is a great way to make best use of the alternator, charging batteries, making water and heating it too + a few knots more of speed to weather - beautiful.
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02-02-2018, 13:47
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 619
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
In general, before you start using a bigger alternator, you should make sure that you're getting all the juice you can from your existing set-up, minimizing voltage drop, fixing bad connections etc and also using an external charge regulator that can massively improve charge times.
That being said, for long-term cruising offshore at least, having multiple sources of power is by itself a benefit, aside from how much power you need.
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02-02-2018, 15:53
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 293
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleman
If you want to have a good life on the high seas most boaters will want good heating and air conditioning as a minimum. Most will want full size refers and freezers with an array of kitchen appliances, and washers and dryers. AND the ability to take a hot water shower daily using fresh water.
These needs will never be supported by a few hundred watts of solar panels and automotive generators on a 40 HP diesel.
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Can you explain your logic here? What's the difference to the battery bank/house load if it's receiving 80amps from a genny or from a HO alternator? Not being snarky, I just don't understand why full size appliances would not work with the alternator but would with the generator.
And as LiPo prices fall, isn't it possible to build a bank large enough to run AC at night with no incoming power, then do a two HO alternator 1-hour recharge of the bank the next morning(assuming it's set-up for high recharge) and let solar take care of the rest?
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02-02-2018, 16:12
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,480
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Re: High power alternators vs Genny on a Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean Counter
Interesting. On our boat with slight weather helm the autopilot holds the wheel slightly offset to lee to counteract the weather helm. If we run the lee engine it makes it worse and the autopilot needs to compensate further thus causing drag on the rudders. If we run the windward engine the helm almost centers, thus reducing drag. We Fold the lee prop.
Yes motor sailing in light air is a great way to make best use of the alternator, charging batteries, making water and heating it too + a few knots more of speed to weather - beautiful.
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You have weather helm on a cat? My Lagoon 42 TPI seemed to have no helm feel at all, it was a bit distracting for an old mono sailor. (Also, I wonder if your AP is effected by the engine alternator magnetic field?)
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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