Helia 44 abandoned off Puerto Rico

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by Factor

Ahhh. Never

Yeah, hence my correction in Post 103...

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

I am sorry I lost my cool but I do not go often on this forum ; and each time it is the same thing , I got into an argument ; So looking at your screen name ;; i am going to let it go ; I do not want argument ; I do not want to teach anything to anyone ; Actually I do not give a s;;t if people buy lagoon or FP . Good for them , and good for you ; and bravo for being a Coastie ; Bye now

Welcome to the cruisers forum! Some of the members have to attack the messenger to defend their poor choices. The rest of us appreciate your insights into the difficulties of being a dealer these days. I don't think build quality is a mono vs cat issue-- I know of several new European monohull boats I have been on that I would not want to be responsible for as a dealer.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

These boats - Lagoon and FP are not built to go offshore ; especially in any kind of weather ; So many things can go wrong ; laminate , structure, rigging , overload , overweight , seacock failure , Raw water intake failure on Engine or gen set ; and ass mentioned in the thread , escape hatches ; ungluing of hull windows ;; and i am sure I am missing a few

How do you explain Ive seen and met families sailing the world successfully in these boats and they are having no more or no less trouble than anyone else. I personally know two families that have successfully circumnavigated on Lagoons, a 38 and a 400

Just lucky I guess?

[RoadRacer]

pguillemin = troll

Please don't feed him......

[boom23]

Any boat, monohull or catamaran, can reach it's limits at some point. Most of the times it's due to the Captain's decisions along the way...

You can either live life and make mistakes to learn from, or you can sit on your couch and judge...

Your choice.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by jjjacq

Rather than trying to make separate water tight compartments, I wonder if anyone has thought of simply inflating bladders (say weather balloons like) with simply compressed air bottles. The hull is breached, blow up the ballons, then head to port.

There was a company called "Floatpac" in Australia that made exactly this device, I saw a video of a flooded ballast keel monohull being recovered as a demo. Maybe the market was too small to sustain the product. You can however buy airbags used by 4WD guys that will lift 4 tonnes so maybe buy a few of them and DIY .

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by RoadRacer

pguillemin = troll

Please don't feed him......

I’m not sure. Maybe not as much of an absolute as he says but I know the market in large volume cats and monos is comfort and price point. The masses don’t go to boat shows looking for beneath the veneer quality and in most cases aren’t knowledgeable enough to discern this

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I’m not sure. Maybe not as much of an absolute as he says but I know the market in large volume cats and monos is comfort and price point. The masses don’t go to boat shows looking for beneath the veneer quality and in most cases aren’t knowledgeable enough to discern this

I ask this regularly, how do you explain that I see them off shore in faraway places and they are having no more trouble than anyone else?

double u mentioned here or elsewhere that the production boats hes anchored near in Tahiti currently all look fine and sailed there!

Here's my take from what I've experienced, many old Taiwanese boats arent built as well as many think they are, most new boats are more capable than most believe they are and most really dont know what they are talking about, they repeat bar room chatter and arent actually crossing oceans seeing the reality of what's happening......dosent the fact that people like me are actually seeing these boats successfully circumnavigating offer real proof that they can?

Being an American heavy forum limits perspective, talk to french sailors about their modern designed twin rudder boats, while most here still idolize the likes of Bob Perry many others from around the world are sailing fast ,comfortable cool looking monos and cats around the world without their hulls collapsing.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I ask this regularly, how do you explain that I see them off shore in faraway places and they are having no more trouble than anyone else?

double u mentioned here or elsewhere that the production boats hes anchored near in Tahiti currently all look fine and sailed there!

Here's my take from what I've experienced, many old Taiwanese boats arent built as well as many think they are, most new boats are more capable than most believe they are and most really dont know what they are talking about, they repeat bar room chatter and arent actually crossing oceans seeing the reality of what's happening......dosent the fact that people like me are actually seeing these boats successfully circumnavigating offer real proof that they can?

Being an American heavy forum limits perspective, talk to french sailors about their modern designed twin rudder boats, while most here still idolize the likes of Bob Perry many others from around the world are sailing fast ,comfortable cool looking monos and cats around the world without their hulls collapsing.

in my humble opinion both of you are describing the same reality under opposite perspectives.
- of course there are heaps of mass produced boats sailing without mishaps.
- of course some of those boats, models have design or Quality control issues that under given circumstances can cause be just a nuisance, a breakdown, or a casualty. It is not just his experience as a dealer, is reading the experiences, supported by pics, of actual owners in forums, fb....or pierside.

Peace

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Being an American heavy forum limits perspective, talk to french sailors about their modern designed twin rudder boats, while most here still idolize the likes of Bob Perry many others from around the world are sailing fast ,comfortable cool looking monos and cats around the world without their hulls collapsing.

Nailed it Dale.

Same for down under where lightish (for their time) fast cruising boats have the norm for decades.

[Avihoo]

The closers Escape Hatch core’s/hinges are constructed out of plastic (Nylon), and assembled to the Hatch, with a tiny spiral screw. This is all what keeping the Escape Hatches sealing, and unexpected encounter and a thud of a floating object.
I replaced the Cores of the closet, with a Stainless steel core, with a round ‘base’, with an M6 thread, to be met with an M6 Allen screw & SS disc’s. In the attached photo, you can see the Escape Hatches, with the stainless cores, and the old plastic core/hinge, on it.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Avihoo

The closers Escape Hatch core’s/hinges are constructed out of plastic (Nylon), and assembled to the Hatch, with a tiny spiral screw. This is all what keeping the Escape Hatches sealing, and unexpected encounter and a thud of a floating object.
I replaced the Cores of the closet, with a Stainless steel core, with a round ‘base’, with an M6 thread, to be met with an M6 Allen screw & SS disc’s. In the attached photo, you can see the Escape Hatches, with the stainless cores, and the old plastic core/hinge, on it.

Attachment 205264

Nice work I've had a few Lewmar deck hatches with that same plastic stem and screw set-up... it is totally inadequate for properly dogging a deck hatch, but for something so close to the waterline, it's outrageously dangerous.

Matt

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Valiente

in my humble opinion both of you are describing the same reality under opposite perspectives.
- of course there are heaps of mass produced boats sailing without mishaps.
- of course some of those boats, models have design or Quality control issues that under given circumstances can cause be just a nuisance, a breakdown, or a casualty. It is not just his experience as a dealer, is reading the experiences, supported by pics, of actual owners in forums, fb....or pierside.

Peace

I think we all have to admit that there's a world of difference between "quality issues" on some boats and "These boats - Lagoon and FP are not built to go offshore" and completely implausibly "All of the lagoon 560 and 620 that goes across the atlantic ( all of them ) have to go back to the factory for structural repair" among other ridiculous unsupported assertions from our friend pguillemin. The first is a perfectly reasonable statement about any new boat, be it an Oyster or Swan or a Lagoon or FP. The second is borderline if not full on libel and absurd. I get that you're trying to avoid conflict, but at some point you have to call complete and utter BS for what it is. Close to none of the assertions that he's making about entire fleets are even remotely close to true, and given that we all strive to make this a place for useful information it's somewhat important that someone not be able to claim to be a dealer and spout utter nonsense without being called on it without mincing words.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

I think we all have to admit that there's a world of difference between "quality issues" on some boats and "These boats - Lagoon and FP are not built to go offshore" and completely implausibly "All of the lagoon 560 and 620 that goes across the atlantic ( all of them ) have to go back to the factory for structural repair" among other ridiculous unsupported assertions from our friend pguillemin. The first is a perfectly reasonable statement about any new boat, be it an Oyster or Swan or a Lagoon or FP. The second is borderline if not full on libel and absurd. I get that you're trying to avoid conflict, but at some point you have to call complete and utter BS for what it is. Close to none of the assertions that he's making about entire fleets are even remotely close to true, and given that we all strive to make this a place for useful information it's somewhat important that someone not be able to claim to be a dealer and spout utter nonsense without being called on it without mincing words.

Good point. The statement doesn't make basic sense. If every single example of a boat needed to be transported back and forth across the Atlantic for major repairs at the manufacturers cost, you'd expect them to go out of business pretty quickly. Also, surely they'd simply and quickly incorporate any structural modifications needed into the build process.

[AllenRbrts]

Boat came ashore. Not this photo answers many questions except it was not a collision and of course the boat never sank.