Helia 44 abandoned off Puerto Rico

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by double u

...ok, after a fashion...
but I stil have to ask why “comfort“ seems to be pretty much the only parameter the multihull designers have been working on...
I know: charter-market driven!

You know I think that statement can be made for pretty much any high volume manufactured boat, however Cats do seem to dominate that market share

[double u]

touche, a64pilot. For sure our Elan 410 was built with the charter market in mind too, BUT imho she still is a much mor “balanced“ boat than say a lagoon 38(0), & a MUCH better looking too (if I say so myself...).
But thats comparing grapes to melons: the lagoon would be twice the $$ of the Elan (which holed big enough in the right place would of course sink like a stone)

[carlosproa]

I had both monos and multihulls in my life (pacific proas, trimarans, and catamarans). I will share two embarrassing situations for the group. 30 years ago my 28ft mono hull sank at the dock due to palm tree seeds clogging the cockpit drains while I was away in my honeymoon. Good thing was the bottom was 8 ft; but it sank. Apparently it rained for 2 weeks straight Miami style (lots)
27 years later my current 33 ft catamaran developed a Bernoulli’s effect at an above the water bathroom sink drain. It was blowing 40knots plus at the mooring and creating big wave, long story short, the port hull filled with water. It took me longer to rent the industrial water pump than to pump the water out of the hull. End result it did not sink but bruised my ego as well as replacing all the electrics in the port side.

[capn_billl]

It looks like a stern first sinking, I would look at through hulls, or grounding at saildrives.

All my escape hatches are well above the waterline. I think the Helia had one in the shower about 12 inches up.

[Dogscout]

See it's a fad. People are just throwing them away now.

[AllenRbrts]

Bows have floatation so they will always sit stern down bow up when the boat takes in water. The question is how did the water enter. It will is possible the crew doesn't know, all of sudden they had water everywhere and didn't know the source. We were lucky and noticed it just when it happened and had time to deal with it.

Yes Helia hatches are at water level so it is really bad. However, I met a Catana owner that lost their hatch on a passage and while it was higher, they still had a lot of water coming in because of the swell in the open ocean. You really don't want that hatch to fail on any boat, ever. There is no bilge pump that will keep up.

Originally Posted by capn_billl

It looks like a stern first sinking, I would look at through hulls, or grounding at saildrives.

All my escape hatches are well above the waterline. I think the Helia had one in the shower about 12 inches up.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

Bows have floatation so they will always sit stern down bow up when the boat takes in water. The question is how did the water enter. It will is possible the crew doesn't know, all of sudden they had water everywhere and didn't know the source. We were lucky and noticed it just when it happened and had time to deal with it.

Yes Helia hatches are at water level so it is really bad. However, I met a Catana owner that lost their hatch on a passage and while it was higher, they still had a lot of water coming in because of the swell in the open ocean. You really don't want that hatch to fail on any boat, ever. There is no bilge pump that will keep up.

It might take me five minutes, several double (or triple) folded garbage bags, and as many rolls of duck as needed to cover the escape hatch. Maybe I would also need something like the sheet plastic that slides down in the slots on both sides of the companion way to back this up; and of course more duck tape. Truth be told I don't really carry duck tape any more since I started buying gaffers tape which is actually better than duck tape; learned that when I was on set making moving pictures. While maybe not totally water proof even a dinghy hand powered bilge pump could keep up what leaked in.

Of course since I have a Seawind with no escape hatch I just made all of that up. And since I installed a composting head and outboards in wells all the thru hulls have been glassed over. While I do have a couple of drains for the sink in the galley and head above the water line I have never noticed any leaks there in any type of seaway.

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by tomfl

It might take me five minutes, several double (or triple) folded garbage bags, and as many rolls of duck as needed to cover the escape hatch. Maybe I would also need something like the sheet plastic that slides down in the slots on both sides of the companion way to back this up; and of course more duck tape.

Humm.... the water pressure on the escape hatch is hundreds of pounds, sheeting plastic and duct tape would be worthless. It only possible to seal the hatch from the outside due to the pressure. There was a thread on this in the last 30 days about a research ship which diverted 100s of miles to aid a Lagoon that lost their hatch. The Lagoon had been unable to seal the hatch from the inside with plywood, the research ship came up with a very clever solution externally.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ut-216834.html


I'm glad you are not at risk, but there are hundreds probably thousands of boats that are. They should all take steps to secure their hatches.

[Bean Counter]

I would venture that escape hatches are rarely "maintained", I.e few people closely inspect them, check the seals or just replace the seals and hinges/fittings on a regular basis as preventative maintenance, especially after a freezing winter lay up - rather action is not taken until they leak, or in worst case pop out. Same goes for sail drive through hull seals, these are rarely inspected from underneath on a regular basis because the fairing is difficult to remove and costs money. (in most cases at least the sail drive seal has a second backup seal and alarm - and I wonder how many people actually test that alarm each year)

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Please...let's not start another mono versus multihull diatribe. They both have their pluses and minuses. Each to their own choosing. No need to bash. Respect another person's choices...even if they aren't your own.

That would be nice. Sadly there are some who take great delight in seeing any kind of misfortune happen to a multihull and can't wait to post their 0.5 cents worth.

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

I would venture that escape hatches are rarely "maintained", I.e few people closely inspect them, check the seals or just replace the seals and hinges/fittings on a regular basis as preventative maintenance, especially after a freezing winter lay up - rather action is not taken until they leak, or in worst case pop out. Same goes for sail drive through hull seals, these are rarely inspected from underneath on a regular basis because the fairing is difficult to remove and costs money. (in most cases at least the sail drive seal has a second backup seal and alarm - and I wonder how many people actually test that alarm each year)

I think this is very true, but it is very important for multihull owners to know two of these hatches (which are widely used on many different brands) have defects that needs to be addressed. The defect is outside normal maintenance. In particular the Lagoon hatch has no seals or moving parts to maintain. So if you have an effected boat and haven’t addressed the recall, you should not delay.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

It looks like a stern first sinking, I would look at through hulls, or grounding at saildrives.

All my escape hatches are well above the waterline. I think the Helia had one in the shower about 12 inches up.

I'll bet it was the escape hatch. If you have any doubt read this thread:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ic-207264.html




If you have a cat with a Goiot brand escape hatch you had better call the manufacturer! AllenRbts was the one that got this recall started!
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ll-209310.html

[double u]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

I would venture that escape hatches are rarely "maintained", I.e few people closely inspect them, check the seals or just replace the seals and hinges/fittings on a regular basis as preventative maintenance, especially after a freezing winter lay up - rather action is not taken ...

The overruling selling point of nearly all of these modern cats being their „comfort“, does this astonish you? How „comfortable“ is constant vigilance & preventative maintenance?

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

I think this is very true, but it is very important for multihull owners to know two of these hatches (which are widely used on many different brands) have defects that needs to be addressed. The defect is outside normal maintenance. In particular the Lagoon hatch has no seals or moving parts to maintain. So if you have an effected boat and haven’t addressed the recall, you should not delay.

I agree, if you have a boat subject to the notice, you would be crazy not to get the fix, if for no other reason than insurance. The Lagoon hatch does have an adhesive seal, it's what holds the glass in. I bet if you aimed a pressure washer at it water might penetrate the seal, which in my armchair theory could be one reason the seal could start to fail especially if the seal is subject to freezing conditions and the water expansion starts to split it away. Expansion may also be a reason the back stop bracket system allows an air gap between the metal and glass.



The Takata airbag fiasco applied to many cars including Ferrari, but years later there are still cars out then which have not had the free fix applied.

You can take a horse to water .....etc.

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by double u

The overruling selling point of nearly all of these modern cats being their „comfort“, does this astonish you? How „comfortable“ is constant vigilance & preventative maintenance?

Not at all astonishing.