Gemini Legacy 35. First sailboat?

[Lexi22]

Hey everyone,
I'd like to hear some opinions on buying a Gemini Legacy as a first sailboat. Well, of course, classes to be taken prior to that, and a few charter tours...
I've been considering monohulls for a long time, but due to a minor knee issue, I've started to reconsider; I don't know how much stress heeling will put on my knee. Regardless of the keel design, there will be stress on the knee in a Monohull. So, independent from my monohull research, I've decided to take a look at some multihulls as well.
I live on the East Coast and wanna sail to the Bahamas and such waters if I choose a catamaran. Gemini seemed to be a great option, a domestic product, so no parts issue. It probably doesn't sail that great, but it should do the job for me. I want a calm, easy to sail single handed, practical boat; at least, it seems simple on paper. I think it has the best draft for shallow waters. I wonder what would be the shortest cut to be able to safely and singlehandedly sail one. I'll probably will have hands on experience with it during a class or charter in some way; I think is a plus before buying it. I have some dingy experience, but not on a multihull; going back to dingies is not an option for me.
Everything looks good on paper with Legacy 35, but some wise voice whispers in my ear, "you are crazy!?"
I wonder if anyone has some real life exprience on a Legacy, and what was their sailing exprience level at the time... How did it go, and such - or what ever you'd like to tell me.
Thanks,
Lexi.

[valhalla360]

Not a fan of the Legacy with twin engine and fixed keels but huge fan of the Gemini with single steerable engine and retractable keels/rudders.

We lived on our Gemini for a little shy of 10yrs. I'm not sure it would solve knee issues as there are still steps up and down. Maybe marginally better than a mono but if you can't handle steps, it will be an issue.

I know of several who single hand Gemini but personally, I don't like the idea of single handing much over the mid-20ft range. Once everything is set and you are underway, not hard to handle a 70fter but docking, raising/lower the sails, etc..., just too much boat to for our tastes.

[Lexi22]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Not a fan of the Legacy...
I'm not sure it would solve knee issues...

Yeah, I've heard about the older ones. I saw one on sale for 50k, in very bad condition. I'll need luck to find one. I think with the legacy, they simplified some things, like the keel. about the motors with legacy, I could even go with outboards, I read somethere - I dunno, I will have to double check on that. I woud go with outboard if that's even possible on LEgacy.
My knee is not that bad. I walk, climb stairs fast, run, jump, with no issues. still, it'll be wise for me to decrease the stress as much as I can. in a constant heel situation, there will be too much add on stress; I sure dont want to do it on a long, long period of time daily. On a multihull, more than half of such stress is eliminated.
When you sailed your gemini what experience level you were in sailing sport?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lexi22

Yeah, I've heard about the older ones. I saw one on sale for 50k, in very bad condition. I'll need luck to find one. I think with the legacy, they simplified some things, like the keel. about the motors with legacy, I could even go with outboards, I read somethere - I dunno, I will have to double check on that. I woud go with outboard if that's even possible on LEgacy.
My knee is not that bad. I walk, climb stairs fast, run, jump, with no issues. still, it'll be wise for me to decrease the stress as much as I can. in a constant heel situation, there will be too much add on stress; I sure dont want to do it on a long, long period of time daily. On a multihull, more than half of such stress is eliminated.
When you sailed your gemini what experience level you were in sailing sport?

$50k in rough condition should be early 00's. They've been in production since the 80's with a large production run. You should be able to line up age with budget and get something in good condition.

The boards weren't complicated. A couple things to keep an eye on but otherwise, not much to do to them (unless the pivot is leaking really, nothing to maintain...Other than bottom paint, we did nothing to ours over 10yrs). Twin inboards is more complicated and both heats up and eats up the interior. Plus it's a lot of weight in the stern.

Originally, the boat was designed for a single outboard, center mounted (that's what we had). Late 90's they started switching to a single diesel with a long I/O unit (stilleto). I prefer the outboard (4stroke, fuel injected) for simplicity.

Not going to say you shouldn't get the legacy but you aren't going to get one for $50k unless it's totaled. It just doesn't tick the boxes that drew us to the Gemini.

[thinwater]

The 105 MC had some good points. Pretty weatherly and reasonably fast for what it was. Very shoal draft. But the legacy really isn't a sailboat.

Look at this low clearance, and that is in a canal, with no dinghy on the davits, no stores or stuff, and probably light tanks. Full I'll bet it's in the water at times. Look at the fat hulls. The helm position sucks; you have to sit twisted on the rail because otherwise you are starring through the cabin. Only two winches. This means you have to park the genoa sheet in a jammer, which is a no-no on a multi, particularly a slender multi.





Look at the stack of jammers in front of the starboard winch (7 lines). Poor grinding ergonomics and only the helmsman can reach them! This is designed to be a dock queen, not as a sailing machine.



I will say they've put a lot in the interior. Very functional and nice.



Sail Delmarva: It's Sweet When You Stay in Love With the Girl You Brought

[Lexi22]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Not going to say you shouldn't get the legacy but you aren't going to get one for $50k unless it's totaled. It just doesn't tick the boxes that drew us to the Gemini.

I'm planning to buy brand new. I was talking about a used one I had seen. A catamaran for 50k, in good condition - I wish!?
A new Legacy will go for long years, and will cost less then many monohulls I've seen. Not other catamarans, but Gemini can compete with monohull prices. I think to enjoy Bahamas and cruise with less of a headache; they seemed to be best for the purpose. I really wonder if they come with outboards, like the Seawind 1160lite.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Lexi22

I think with the legacy, they simplified some things, like the keel.

The best features of the 105Mc, is the ability to raise the centerboards, rudders and drive leg. The Legacy has none of those features.

If I were picking another boat that did not have those features, and still wanted to stay affordable, if that can be said about any boat, I'd probably be looking at a Lagoon 380.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Look at this low clearance, and that is in a canal, with no dinghy on the davits, no stores or stuff, and probably light tanks. Full I'll bet it's in the water at times. Look at the fat hulls. The helm position sucks; you have to sit twisted on the rail because otherwise you are starring through the cabin. Only two winches. This means you have to park the genoa sheet in a jammer, which is a no-no on a multi, particularly a slender multi.


Look at the stack of jammers in front of the starboard winch (7 lines). Poor grinding ergonomics and only the helmsman can reach them! This is designed to be a dock queen, not as a sailing machine.

The twin inboards do hurt the clearance at the stern.

Helm position is actually nice (same as Gemini). If we are just out for a short day sail, we would sit on the side to be out in the sun and breeze like shown but if more than an hour or two, we had a seat that could be placed in front of the helm. The rear windows drop down, so you are only looking thru the windshield...not really any different than driving a car. Visibility wasn't an issue at the helm. Provides excellent protection from sun and rain.

The older boats have the mainsheet down on the aft edge of the cockpit, plus no need for a winch since it's small enough sail that the block and tackle were plenty. I suspect it's when they moved the traveler to the cockpit roof and lead the lines back that you wound up with spaghetti at the helm.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lexi22

I'm planning to buy brand new. I was talking about a used one I had seen. A catamaran for 50k, in good condition - I wish!?
A new Legacy will go for long years, and will cost less then many monohulls I've seen. Not other catamarans, but Gemini can compete with monohull prices. I think to enjoy Bahamas and cruise with less of a headache; they seemed to be best for the purpose. I really wonder if they come with outboards, like the Seawind 1160lite.

If you have a $300k+ budget, you should be able to find a very nicely fitted out 105 all set up for cruising and in great condition.

Keep in mind if you buy new, you can expect to spend literally 10's of thousands to get it prepared to actually head out to cruise.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Lexi22

Hey everyone,
I'd like to hear some opinions on buying a Gemini Legacy as a first sailboat. Well, of course, classes to be taken prior to that, and a few charter tours...
I've been considering monohulls for a long time, but due to a minor knee issue, I've started to reconsider; I don't know how much stress heeling will put on my knee. Regardless of the keel design, there will be stress on the knee in a Monohull. So, independent from my monohull research, I've decided to take a look at some multihulls as well.
I live on the East Coast and wanna sail to the Bahamas and such waters if I choose a catamaran. Gemini seemed to be a great option, a domestic product, so no parts issue. It probably doesn't sail that great, but it should do the job for me. I want a calm, easy to sail single handed, practical boat; at least, it seems simple on paper. I think it has the best draft for shallow waters. I wonder what would be the shortest cut to be able to safely and singlehandedly sail one. I'll probably will have hands on experience with it during a class or charter in some way; I think is a plus before buying it. I have some dingy experience, but not on a multihull; going back to dingies is not an option for me.
Everything looks good on paper with Legacy 35, but some wise voice whispers in my ear, "you are crazy!?"
I wonder if anyone has some real life exprience on a Legacy, and what was their sailing exprience level at the time... How did it go, and such - or what ever you'd like to tell me.
Thanks,
Lexi.

Checkout Gemini 105 MC's the previous model to the Legacy 35. I have no first hand experience with either model but 105 MC's have retractable center boards so less draft for the Bahamas, lighter than a Legacy so might sail better and with center boards might point a little higher. I think the 105MC's until about 2011 were made by the designer and after that Hunter. I think Legacy 35's are built by Catalina and initially by Hunter. I think you can get a 105 MC in decent shape for $90K to $100K there are some lower hours' hull's of 105MC's out there for more up to about $125K. There is a good owner's forum for all things Gemini: main@geminicatamarans.groups.io You can join the forum by just saying you are thinking if buying. If you go back and look at the posts you can get a good feel what owning one will be like. Because the 105MC's are an older model, so many were sold and I think a lot more were sold than the Legacy 35's so far, so every conceivable issue that can come up has been discussed on the Gemini Owners Forum, more than once.

See more links below:

https://vimeo.com/5595748

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...s/gemini-105mc

https://www.geminicatamarans.com/GEM...y-vs-105Mc.pdf

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-161305.html

An advantage of the Legacy 35 is two engines for redundancy versus one for the 105 MC. But two engines means more expense to run and maintain.

What you save upfront on even a low hours 105 MC for approx. $125K versus a new or newer Legacy 35, you can have a big reserve to repair, replace whatever breaks and fit her out the way you want.

If I was in the market for a Gemini and the plan was to sail the Bahamas and Florida I would try to find a 105 MC in great shape, that has been well maintained for a fair price instead of a Legacy 35. But everybody has different needs, wants and desires.

Go charter a Legacy 35 and try and find an owner of an 105 MC that will take you for a a couple hour sail. I don't think there are any 105 MC's available to charter. Try and find some one that does not have an axe to grind that has sailed a good bit on both models.

[Lexi22]

Well, my original thread about Gemini Legacy 35 was accidentally locked. I think it's, now, accidentally deleted. Eh, it happens sometimes; it's all good, Ann. Back to the matter in hand... I think it's a great catamaran to start sailing with. Cheap, easy to maintain, looks easy to sail from outside to an amateur eye, and initial thoughts are all such positive assumptions. I guess the Gemini folks tried to design a sailboat that was easier to maintain than the earlier Gemini boats, but did it end up being a bit inferior compared to the other Geminis when the sailing capabilities considered? I don't know the answer to that, but I know many folks here do... Is this a good sailboat to own, or it should be left as the charter boat it probably was intended to be? As an amateur, I would suggest a better located wheel in the cockpit - or even a simple tiller system where the captain can see the surroundings easily -, two light outboards instead of inboard diesels, the middle of the boat to be a bit higher from the water, and lifting centerboards with kick-up rudders...

[noelex 77]

The original thread was accidentally locked, but is now just further down the portal so the two threads have been merged.

[Rohan]

When I bought my current boat, I seriously considered the Gemini 105MC. It's actually a brilliant design, and I read somewhere that more were sold than any other single model of catamaran. But there were two things I didn't like - it just felt dark inside, even though it wasn't that dark. I don't know how to describe it. Maybe cause there was so little headroom above the salon table (most cats have windows right there facing forward). The other part I hated was lack of visibility from the helm.

The Legacy 35 solved the first problem at least - it just feels much more bright and cheerful inside. The Legacy can also have two heads which is a plus. Don't let the nay sayers get you down too much, this forum tends to be negative on any boat anyone asks about. I think you would be very happy with it.

At the same time, I don't think a monohull heeling would be a problem for your knee, unless you are on a tiny racing model, heeling is an extremely subtle motion, usually you dont even realize it. If that was painful, then even stepping into any boat would be painful. And speaking of that,with a knee problem you probably want to go up and down as few steps as possible, in that case the Geminis are a decent choice, about as good as you will find.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Rohan

When I bought my current boat, I seriously considered the Gemini 105MC. It's actually a brilliant design, and I read somewhere that more were sold than any other single model of catamaran. But there were two things I didn't like - it just felt dark inside, even though it wasn't that dark. I don't know how to describe it. Maybe cause there was so little headroom above the salon table (most cats have windows right there facing forward). The other part I hated was lack of visibility from the helm.

The Legacy 35 solved the first problem at least - it just feels much more bright and cheerful inside. The Legacy can also have two heads which is a plus. Don't let the nay sayers get you down too much, this forum tends to be negative on any boat anyone asks about. I think you would be very happy with it.

The interior of the 105 and the Legacy are nearly identical. I believe it uses the same hull molds just changes out the lifting boards for fixed keels (along with engine configuration)...not clear how it would be more bright inside?

Some of the earlier models have more woodwork which makes them a little darker inside. Our 3400 had lots of it but the 105s transitioned to mostly white fiberglass interiors.

Of course, our issue was usually the opposite. All those windows made it effectively a solar greenhouse. Cooling it was much more of a challenge. There was plenty of visibility, so it never felt claustrophobic.

Likewise, most people complaining about the helm, I don't believe have ever sailed one. It's pretty much a non-issue.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lexi22

, or it should be left as the charter boat it probably was intended to be?

While there are a few that have been chartered, Gemini's had chartering as their primary use case.