Gemini Catamarans - Problems

[Ocean Girl]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Look at the PDQ group site (PDQ Forum • Index page). I did take a Gemini for a test drive and didn't like it a bit. Poor visibility forward, hard to reach the winches and only 1 on each side, pounding in any chop, poor visability in the salon... and finally a repair record that I did not like. They have some great features and I do not want to bash them; very weatherly, fast, shoal draft, great interior space. But there are options. I choose a PDQ 32 and love it. The space is a bit less, speed is ~ equal if matching sails are set and the construction quality is on a different level. For example, the Gemini uses glassed-in ply bulkheads around the rudders, the fridge won't fit through the door (goes in before the roof), and the finish tabbing in hidden areas is sloppy.

Be patient and don't marry the first girl you meet ! Alway sound advice.

I owned a '86 or an 82' ( can't remember her year) and the above is pretty accurate.
Pros:
I loved the outboards, easy to work on.
Nice layout below
You can get them cheap.
Hull and deck seemed solid




Cons:
Nothing big ever really broke but the usual gear, hinges, and latches. All equipment is cheap, but hull and deck seemed solid.
The headliner absorbs smell, but that could of just been mine.
She sails well but the visibility is really challenging.
Large 13foot forward cabin deadlight can be a source of leak due to all the screws used to mount it.


As it happens, I saw Stray Cat in our new marina down at port Aransas. A kid bought her for 12,000!! He charters her every weekend.I don't know how many owners she went through, but she looked very rough, like she was ridden hard and put away wet!

Hope that helps, I didn't have any soft deck issues. I did paint her, she was a sweet cheap cat.

Erika

[jrowan]

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

This is solid advice and people would do well to heed it.

Walk on a Gemini first to get the feel of her. If you weigh anywhere near 200 pounds, one walk along a deck or cockpit is all you'll need. My experience is '87 through 2004 model boats. I can't speak for newer models.

If...and only if the boat was maintained, People looking in that price range are better off buying any older British Catamaran of the same age.

Ahhh, the Gemini is based directly off the original molds of a BRITISH designed "Aristocat" from 1960's era. So it is in fact based on a British design, Mate.

[smj]

Originally Posted by jrowan

Ahhh, the Gemini is based directly off the original molds of a BRITISH designed "Aristocat" from 1960's era. So it is in fact based on a British design, Mate.

How right you are:-)

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by CaptNery

I am in the process of replacing both centerboards on a 1996 Gemini M. The boat is on dry dock, I got some instructions from Gemini, but I can not see how to access the other side of the pivot bolt to replace the nut and washer. It also took me some time to find the bolt since is hidden by the door frames (which I will have to remove) from the master stateroom and the head. Any information, advise and hopefully some pictures will be greatly appreciated. I am in the Fort Lauderdale area in Florida and if you have done this, are free and can help, I am willing to pay for your assistance.

CaptNery,

The best place to research and ask questions is undoubedly

Gemini_Cats : Gemini Catamarans

Join up and you can research archives (I don't know how but it can be done) and ask questions.

I would not be surprised at all if someone does not offer to come over and help you out.

[spidercrab]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

Although I rarely do so (and am as opinionated as virtually anyone on this site), in this instance I am taking the middle ground. As the owner of an older British-built cat (1994 Solaris Sunstream 40), I tend to agree with Rick's comments concerning the quality of construction of cats done to Lloyd's 100 A1 unlimited offshore standards. That being said, I can also appreciate that they tend to be both heavier and slower than their more lightly built counterparts. As Sandy rightly points out, different horses for different courses.

Are there reasons to buy a Gemini, new or used? Many.

1. The performance in all but heavy conditions will tend to be superior: she will sail faster on all points of sail and she will point higher than older British cats of a comparable size. (Especially if one uses the boards effectively on different points of sail).
2. The accomodation will be superior to comparably priced, but older British cats.
3. She will have a more modern and, to many, more attractive appearance.
4. The newer ones had a molded headliner, doing away with the glued on vinyl that was used in the earlier models (and in the typical older British cat). These will inevitably need to be replaced as the glue fails and they start to sag.
5. There is undoubtedly a larger demand for used Gemini's, at least in the USA, than there is for older British cats. This should help when it comes to re-listing the boat.

Are there negatives associated with the choice of a Gemini? Of course.
1. The Gemini will be more lightly built without resorting to exotic materials. The result is an increased tendancy to develop stress cracks (and not just in theory, as witnessed by many including yours truly).
2. The boards, while tending to improve performance, require increased vigilance and maintenance. Something, by the way, which I would have no hesitation in accepting in exchange for the resultant performance/shoal draft capabilities.
3. She will have less of a reputation/history as an offshore boat. Indeed, even the manufacturer calls the earlier ones coastal cruisers.
4. She has very little bridgedeck clearance aft - the result will tend to be increased pounding over some of the earlier British boats.
5. The plexiglass windows will need sporadic replacement, unlike the typical tempered glass portlights on the British cats.
6. The visibility forward is compromised by having to look through the interior of the boat (and this is especially true as the windows start to age).
7. The side-decks tend to be narrower, making movement fore and aft a little more challenging, especially in heavy conditions.
8. The standing rigging, stantions, bow pulpit and pushpit all tend to be of a lighter guage than the British boats.

In the end, however, one cannot fail to recognize that the Gemini has been a huge success because it offers a great deal of boat for the money. If someone is interested in a boat on a budget solely for inshore/coastal/Bahamas/Caribbean cruising with a limited number of crew/guests, she would make a fine choice (assuming, as with any boat, that she undergoes a rigorous survey).

Brad

We just got our 2004 Gemini 105MC, haven't had opportunity to sail her much yet. But also had an issue with a daggerboard, that the previous owner repaired.
Just wanted to add to your Pro list:
The shallow draft. We can go places not many others can, our power boating friends or other sail boats.
The mast height and height off the water. We'll be doing most of our cruising on the ICW until we get more familiar and comfortable with her. But...should we choose to go out into the Gulf, there is a 50 ft bridge we need to get under. With a 46 ft. bridge clearance, the Gemini fits under the bridge.
We tried it one afternoon, and it was scary as hell!! Looking up from the cockpit it sure didn't look like it was going to clear! Even tho the markings on the bridge said we had 49 feet,from that perspective it looked a lot closer than that. After cruising around Destin harbor for a bit, didn't worry so much on the return trip. Still don't think I want to try it at high tide...

[geoleo]

If the stupid Gemini factory had used a BRONZE BOLT--there would never be a problema!:banghe ad:

[videorov]

Maybe Gemini will use better bolts in the future.

[videorov]

Originally Posted by spidercrab

We just got our 2004 Gemini 105MC, haven't had opportunity to sail her much yet. But also had an issue with a daggerboard, that the previous owner repaired.
Just wanted to add to your Pro list:
The shallow draft. We can go places not many others can, our power boating friends or other sail boats.
The mast height and height off the water. We'll be doing most of our cruising on the ICW until we get more familiar and comfortable with her. But...should we choose to go out into the Gulf, there is a 50 ft bridge we need to get under. With a 46 ft. bridge clearance, the Gemini fits under the bridge.
We tried it one afternoon, and it was scary as hell!! Looking up from the cockpit it sure didn't look like it was going to clear! Even tho the markings on the bridge said we had 49 feet,from that perspective it looked a lot closer than that. After cruising around Destin harbor for a bit, didn't worry so much on the return trip. Still don't think I want to try it at high tide...

I have seen some makings on some bridges that were not right.
Here is a real good article of a guy that made the trip along the ICW
from Annapolis to Longboat Key - October 4, 2009

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by videorov

Maybe Gemini will use better bolts in the future.

No need.

They now have mini keels and no dagger boards so no need for the bolt.

Simple fix.

But like I said before: The name may have "Gemini" in it but it is a completely different boat.

[smj]

The Gemini website I believe say they are building both the Legacy and the old 105.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by smj

The Gemini website I believe say they are building both the Legacy and the old 105.

Everything I look at points to The Catamaran Company who have exclusive rights to it's sales. The Hunter site I saw has no cats listed.

The only other thing I find one of the old Performance Cruising sites still up.

Gemini Catamarans | Gemini 105Mc | Gemini Legacy 35 | Charter | Brokerage leads to a page that lists the Mc and the legacy. I think it is an old page from when Hunter just started.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by videorov

Maybe Gemini will use better bolts in the future.

I don't believe it is a common failure. With so many boats over so many years, I suspect, it's much ado about nothing.

We have a 3400 have done 1.5 Great Loops living aboard for most of 6 years.

I'm over 300lbs and the decks are just fine holding me up.

Cons:
- In a short steep chop, she bangs if you head straight into the waves (bear off a bit and it's better and larger waves are not as much of an issue). When anchoring, it's often less of an issue than you would think because you can anchor in more protected areas because of the shallow draft.
- We feel the diesel/outdrive version is not as good as the outboard version.
- She isn't a gold plater (but wasn't sold as one). You will get spiderwebbing in the gelcoat (it's cosmetic not structural typically)
- Some complain of visibility (but as long as you remember to drop the rear windows, it hasn't been an issue)


Pros:
- Shallow draft
- Shallow draft
- Shallow draft.
- Fits in a standard slip
- $5k and I can replace the entire drivetrain (outboard version) including labor.
- Mechanically simple (we had a steering line failure, I tied it off to a boat hook and by pulling, was able to steer the motor. Once docked, replaced the line in 1/2hr and most of that was emptying the hatch to get access).
- Handles very well in docking situations with the steerable outboard (you need to learn her handling but once we did, we go places we would never have considered with our old twin inboard boat).
- She's very forgiving of touching bottom.
- Perfect size for a couple to handle.

She's a purpose built boat. We think about other boats now and then but always come back to how she fits out needs better than any other boat we have come across.

[Carl Updyke]

Originally Posted by videorov

I was reading where one guy had a steel bolt break that was holding
up one of the swinging keels. Why would they not be using stainless
for this boat from the factory? His is older model, I wonder if the new
models use stainless bolts for the fold up keels.
The guy had some water about 8 gallons come through around that
bolt aswell. I thought that pivot bolt is located high enough there
would not be that much water reaching up that far, guess it does.
Anyone have this same problem?
I like the idea that these boats can get into shallow water but don't
want to have alot of problems either.

I own a 1997 Gemini 105M. When I bought the boat the boards were glassed into the hull. I had a yard open the slot and make them operational again. The pivot bolts were badly corroded steel and replaced with stainless.

[jannpage]

It is always interesting to me to read other people thoughts. It also interesting how we struggle to justify our opinions. I owned an 10 meter Catalac for 10-12 years (I forget),
I really liked it Very GOOD SAFE boat. Great living. In 01 we stumbled on "home" Such a great bunch of people living on 29 houses in a subdivision meant for a around 100 homes on 2 canals on a big enough bayou to run a PWC with great pleasure (or sail a 18' of so) day sailer and 5 miles of so of a lazy river and 2 BLOCK access to Escambia bay and and all the oceans of the world yet within 5 miles of Metropolitan Pensacola. and very affordable. Darn near paradise. Right? not quiet. At times our skinny water is only inches so the the 3 ft draft of the Catalac and the 15ft or so swath of that needed keeps it either at dock or anchored in the bay waiting for the the tide and sometimes, even the wind to shift to the south (which in the winter can be quiet a wait.) (Even the no-see-ums seem to get impatient too). In the 15 years we have been here we have tried over and over to find the right boat. The up side of all this is I now own 8 boats (thats not all bad) and almost need them all but i still have my eyes on a couple more including a Gemini and I may even decide to put one in a marina a few months a year.. One of my neighbors has a good idea. He flies an untralight on pontoons out of the canal/bayou.
It is not just "different strokes for different folks". Most times it is just simple different values and different circumstances.
this forum and it's people is a very valuable source. Thank you - all of you. Your ideas and comments continue to help me.

PJSSAILER