Four Trimarans - Help Me Choose

[BillAU]

G'day mates,
As I'm new to the world of Trimarans and sailing in general, (the only sail boats I've been aboard were mates yachts in the Med' and down is Durban, S, Africa and I believe they only took me along as extra ballast) so please don't laugh at what, may seem to you, to be stupid questions.
I was wondering if any of you folks with trimaran sailing experience would mind sharing your views with me.

If you had the choice between a 30 to 35 foot Piver Tri or a 30 to 35 foot Hedley Nicol Tri, which would you chose and why?
I would also like to know which medium you would prefer the Tri was built in, hulls and decks, fibre-glass over marine-ply or composite, which I believe, is straight fiber-glass but I'm probably wrong about that.
I would like to live aboard the vessel I end up with and a bit of comfort is always nice...plus the fact that I did not truly enjoy my sailing experiences on monohulls under sale...I did not like my dinner ending-up on the cabin deck I believe cats and trimarans are much more stable at sea.
Thanking you in advance for your advice.

Bill from Aus'

[clockwork orange]

Welcome aboard Bill,The Pivers and Nichols are all old boats and both are likely to be plywood,there is nothing wrong with plywood construction as long as when it was glass sheathed, epoxy resin was used and not polyester. Fortunatly in NZ and Australia epoxy has been the common resin for this purpose since the 1950s so you will probably luck out. In the US a lot of plywood multihulls were built in the 1960s before epoxy was commonly available here so they used polyester which is a disaster.A well built plywood boat is every bit as good as a composite boat for much less money and they have the long history to prove it.Some other boats to look at would be the excelent Searunners,Horstman and Norm Cross designs,all a step up from the Pivers.
Steve.

[multihullsailor6]

Hi Bill,

Further to Steve's above comments the long-term live aboard aspect of a trimaran needs to be taken into account in view of the typical design restrictions, together with your budget. I hope you're planning to do some sailing as well though so do not forget about the sailing capabilities of newer designs.
A tri with an interesting layout suitable for sustained longer-term living I found when I was looking for a tri or cat was the following:
1991 Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com.

Went for a cat in the end.

Roger

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

Welcome aboard Bill,The Pivers and Nichols are all old boats and both are likely to be plywood,there is nothing wrong with plywood construction as long as when it was glass sheathed, epoxy resin was used and not polyester. Fortunatly in NZ and Australia epoxy has been the common resin for this purpose since the 1950s so you will probably luck out. In the US a lot of plywood multihulls were built in the 1960s before epoxy was commonly available here so they used polyester which is a disaster.A well built plywood boat is every bit as good as a composite boat for much less money and they have the long history to prove it.Some other boats to look at would be the excelent Searunners,Horstman and Norm Cross designs,all a step up from the Pivers.
Steve.

G'day Steve,

Thanks for your post mate.
Of the three Tri's I'm looking at, 1, is a 1982, 32ft Hedley Nicol Islander, constructed in moulded ply/epoxy, she sleeps 4 persons. 2 is a 1995, 35ft Hedley Nicol Tri', constructed in fibreglass and she sleeps 6 persons. The third one is an el cheapo, 1984, 30 or 39ft Piver Trimaran. (the yacht agent states two different lengths) Composite construction and she needs a lot of work, new sails, new rigging, new motor, anti-fouled and a full paint job and God only knows what else. The two Hedley were built in New Zealand but no-one knows who or where the Piver was built.
I think the Piver is 30ft as her only accommodation is one double berth.
I really like the clean lines of the two Hedley's, and either one would suit my needs, i.e. live aboard. The Piver on the other hand is much cheaper as it “needs” so much work and I'm not sure if I should even consider buying it.
20 years back I bought two 40ft hulls for a James Waram Captain Cook cat, they too were of ply/epoxy construction and due to my inexperience I was ripped off. After I took delivery of the hulls I found in a number of places that the fibreglass had parted company with the ply. On the advice of a "boat-builder" I sold the hulls for a song but I let the buyer inspect the hulls before he bought them, he said he could fix the faults and bought the two hulls...for a song. Since then I have been wary of ply/epoxy boats but...I don,t need my yacht tomorrow...I can wait till next week to go sailing

I have been reading with interest Kai Nui renovations on his Piver Loadstar 35' and hope he gives us some idea on the cost of his reno' when he gets the time.
One thing I do know for sure...I will not be jumping head first on buying any yacht...I'll do lots of homework before I make any decissions on buying...Once bitten, twice shy.

Cheers Steve,

Bill AU

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by multihullsailor6

Hi Bill,

Further to Steve's above comments the long-term live aboard aspect of a trimaran needs to be taken into account in view of the typical design restrictions, together with your budget. I hope you're planning to do some sailing as well though so do not forget about the sailing capabilities of newer designs.
A tri with an interesting layout suitable for sustained longer-term living I found when I was looking for a tri or cat was the following:
1991 Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com.

Went for a cat in the end.

Roger

G'day Roger,

Thanks for your post, I would need a refresher on navigation and I would need to learn how to sail "before" I went off getting myself into trouble.
Having been at sea for a number of years, merchant service, I traveled the world and it's many ports but I never did get to the Pacific Islands and being the person I am, these days I up anchor and go walk-about with my two little dogs when the whim takes me. If I lived aboard I would not change my walk-about ways, I would base myself up around the Queensland Islands and when I felt like it I would have the whole Pacific to explore...after I took a few sailing lessons .

I was caught off the cost in the storm that almost wiped-out Durban, S, Africa years back and I know just how dangerous the sea can be, that storm frightened the bejabbers out of me and any man who experienced it and says he was not frightened is full of crap! So you can bet your boots...I will learn how to handle a sail boat safely "before" I go off on any voyage! But knowing myself quite well...I "will" head out to explore the Pacific Islands at some stage .

I have also considered cats so we'll see what I end-up with at the end of the day, I would love a forty footer but I don't need one as I would most times be sailing on my own. I think a 30, 32 or 35 footer would do the job just fine...Just so long as it has a shower, a decent galley and a big bunk .

Cheers Roger,

Bill AU

[multihullsailor6]

Hi Bill,

When I was looking for a multihull my plan was (and still is) to check out for myself by sailing multihull if this planet of ours really is round - so besides the good sailing aspects and seaworthiness of the boat I took into account the creature comforts for living aboard for a lengthy time. And at heart I am a trimaran man.

For me I want a living area separate from the sleeping area, which on a tri of modest proportions, say around the 40 ft mark, is difficult to achieve - I don't want to live next to my bedding area nor sleep at the sharp end when offshore! Besides tris with an aft cabin and normally access through the open cockpit not many I have come across will fit that criteria. That said, I have only seen 3 tris that could fill the bill: the one I mentioned in NZ, Sorceress in the UK and an Exception 42 (sold to Brazil before I could make a move! - damn, she was nice!).

On the other hand, there's a very nice 52' in France if you have deeper pockets?! If you buy her let me know, I'll volunteer for some sailing lessons!

Regards from sunny Cape Town
Roger

[BillAU]

G'day Roger,

I hear you loud and clear and I agree with you. I too like a seperate sleeping area, that's another reason I like both Hedley Nicol Tri's I'm thinking about...They both have a double bunk in an aft cabin. The smaller one, 32', is helm stear, the larger one, 35', is tiller stear and I prefer the helm/wheel stear...Just my personal taste. The smaller Tri is on offer by her owner and he is prepared to provide sailing lessons to someone like myself...If they buy his real nice looking 32ft Hedley Nicol Islander. The 35' Tri is on offer by a broker.
I'm pretty sure I've made my decission...Now all I have to do is convince the wife! She detests the sea and just about all water but I'll have a big go at getting her to come around to my way of thinking...We're not getting any younger and if I/we don't do this soon...we'll be to bloody late to do anything! Women! Why do most women enjoy puting a spoke in "our" wheels

Give my regards to Cape Town...Is the Smugglers pub/club still there? Have a few glasses of Castle with MainStay chasers for me

Cheers Roger.

Bill AU
P.S. If you should be heading up to Durban, don't go over the side swimming mate!
There are so many big sharks you won't last ten minutes

[multihullsailor6]

[quote=BillAU;257723]
I'm pretty sure I've made my decission...Now all I have to do is convince the wife! She detests the sea and just about all water but I'll have a big go at getting her to come around to my way of thinking...We're not getting any younger and if I/we don't do this soon...we'll be to bloody late to do anything! Women! Why do most women enjoy puting a spoke in "our" wheels

Give my regards to Cape Town...Is the Smugglers pub/club still there? Have a few glasses of Castle with MainStay chasers for me

Hi Bill,

Good luck and hopefully good sailing to both you AND your wife!
This age thing you mention is ... well ... a nuisamce! What with all the extra oil needed do keep the joints performing for a life on the high seas!
Might see you soon then ... ?
Roger

[Roy M]

Keep an eye out for ANY Kantola you might come across. Skip the Pivers, Horstmans, or Nicols - there are specific reasons for those, which I can give another time. Brown Searunners and Norm Cross tris are superior in seaworthiness and design, and will make you much happier as you gain knowledge and experience with an older trimaran. Where possible, choose wood/epoxy in lieu of other materials, because they are more user friendly for modification, repair and maintenance and they don't weigh you down too much. Don't buy anything with two masts or no keel. Multihulls need speed and directional control to perform to capacity. Making too many compromises will only save you money, ensure you go nowhere slowly, and long for that tri that just disappeared over the horizon.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by Roy M

Keep an eye out for ANY Kantola you might come across. Skip the Pivers, Horstmans, or Nicols - there are specific reasons for those, which I can give another time. Brown Searunners and Norm Cross tris are superior in seaworthiness and design, and will make you much happier as you gain knowledge and experience with an older trimaran. Where possible, choose wood/epoxy in lieu of other materials, because they are more user friendly for modification, repair and maintenance and they don't weigh you down too much. Don't buy anything with two masts or no keel. Multihulls need speed and directional control to perform to capacity. Making too many compromises will only save you money, ensure you go nowhere slowly, and long for that tri that just disappeared over the horizon.

G'day Roy,

Thanks for the heads-up mate, I missed both Tri's I was interested in, a Nicols and a Piver, so I'm still searching but there's no rush as I have yet to convince the wife it's a good idea. The last thing I want or need, is to have a vessel sitting gathering dust.
I'll keep an eye out for a rundown Searunner or Norm Cross tri, just as long as the hulls are sound, I believe I could manage other repairs to decks, interior, electrical systems, motor and any other mec' units.

Roger, sorry mate, the Smugglers pub/club is in Durban...Not Cape Town Must be cobwebs matting-up the old gray matter

Cheers mates,

Bill

[Cadence]

For what little it may be worth. I've had a Piver and a Brown. The Piver pointed better and you didn't have to put up with a trunk and a board.

I'm shore this will start a fire storm here.

Both were ply and glass, built in England and came to the US on their own bottoms.

Both are probably antiquated by todays standards. Guess it depends on how deep your pockets are?

For what it may or may not be worth.

Another,
Roger

[FuzzyFeat]

I built and sailed a Jim Brown designed Sea Runner 37. Excellent boat. Would point well and sail fast. Ply is very user friendly. Had a panga punch a hole in one ama in the Rio and repaired it with a piece of ply and some glass and epoxy. Try that with a cored composite boat.
Easy to sail and forgiving of fools. Hangs to her hook quite nicely with a bridle. Once cruised the Caribbean for three years and burned 45 gal of fuel.

Don't judge all Sea Runners by some you see. Some are god awful, others are works of craftsmanship. The 37 and 40 are good cruisers. Down side is hauling. 21 foot beam is oftimes a problem.

As far as being out classed by modern designs, some will sail faster. Our Sea Runner 37 carried over 3500 lbs of our junk (weighed it once - ) and did not slam the underwing.
Storage is unbelievable. 8 - 9 knots is a comfortable cruising speed.
Wish I still had her.

[BillAU]

G'day mates and thanks for your views.

I'm still searching for that Tri and in the process have found five but...All are outside Australin waters! That "may" present other problems with customs, import duty and such but here they are for your viewing.

(1)
1974 Custom Piver Lodestar AA36 Expedition Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale -

(2)
1990 Jim Brown Design Sea Runner Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale -

(3)
1970 Custom built Williams Trimaran Pilot House Ketch Sail Boat For Sale

(4)
1970 Custom built Williams Trimaran Pilot House Ketch Sail Boat For Sale

(5)
1976 Brown Searunner Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I would like to know what you Tri sailors think of the five Tri's I found...when you get the time to view them, just to show if I'm on the right track

Calm seas to you all.

Bill AU

[Roy M]

Bill, The Piver is probably a dog. Oldest technology, probably least sophisticated construction (lots of dryrot, underwing problems, lack of cargo capacity, very old systems aboard). The Williams is like the Horstmans, using the floats to augment the dearth of interior utility, and probably sails like the aforementioned craft. The Brown is underpriced if it is in good condition, and far away enough to reduce the likelihood of critical review. Keep looking, especially if a Kantola shows up. It will be worth the wait. Keep remembering that you don't want a project boat for the rest of your life. Better to wait for a good sailing machine, with good epoxy hulls and decks, and a minimum of equipment, so you can put solid gear on her and not carry around an annex for the Smithsonian. Old systems don't get better. New systems, if you need them at all, work better, last longer, and reduce stress. Keep that in mind in your search.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by Roy M

Bill, The Piver is probably a dog. Oldest technology, probably least sophisticated construction (lots of dryrot, underwing problems, lack of cargo capacity, very old systems aboard). The Williams is like the Horstmans, using the floats to augment the dearth of interior utility, and probably sails like the aforementioned craft. The Brown is underpriced if it is in good condition, and far away enough to reduce the likelihood of critical review. Keep looking, especially if a Kantola shows up. It will be worth the wait. Keep remembering that you don't want a project boat for the rest of your life. Better to wait for a good sailing machine, with good epoxy hulls and decks, and a minimum of equipment, so you can put solid gear on her and not carry around an annex for the Smithsonian. Old systems don't get better. New systems, if you need them at all, work better, last longer, and reduce stress. Keep that in mind in your search.

G'day Roy,

Thanks for the advice mate, which Brown is underpriced if it is in good condition? Are you referring to the "40' Brown Searunner Cutter in Mexico", or the "31' Jim Brown Design Sea Runner in Thailand"?

I'm in no rush to aquire any vessel. Even though I'm retired, I have to much other stuff on the go at present, like having full solar installed in my home and a number of other personal things. So if you place a bet on me "not" running-out and buying the next Tri I see, your money will be quite safe mate

Having been stung once, years ago, with a 40' Wharram Cat, fiber on ply, I'll do my research and ask lots of questions "before" jumping on-board anything! Just hope forum members don't get fed-up with me asking...What's your opinion on this or that Tri?

Once again, thanks for all your advice Roy, and the input from FuzzyFeat, Cadence, Roger and Steve, all your advice/views are much appreciated by this want-to-be-sailor mates.

Cheers mates, good winds and calm seas to you all.

Bill AU