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FuzzyFeat · 27-05-2009, 07:45

Just a few notes:

With an older boat you are buying the skill of the builder and the skilled maintenance of the owner. Look for evidence of both while buying a used boat.

Ground tackle, rigging and sails are important. Condition (age) is everything.

Life of 'On Board' electronics is 10 years MAX.

Epoxy over polyester any day of the week.

Watch out for project boats. They will suck the hart and finances out of the unskilled novice. I have been to a number of "Boatyards of Broken Dreams" BEWARE!

You do not know the boat until you have seen it in person and "thumped" around. Photos show and rarely tell. Also they may be many years old.

Get a surveyor skilled in the inspection of the kind of boat you are considering. Listen to what thy have to say. NEVER employ a surveyor suggested by the broker.

Use you eyes, ears, sense of smell. Keep you heart in your pocket and your wallet out of sight. Not all pirates fly the "Jolly Roger". Caveat emptor!

Learned most of this the hard way. There is (lots) more to learn.

Cadence · 27-05-2009, 07:56

Bill,

I would have to agree with Roy. The Piver appears not to be maintained. I don't however agree with his assessment of the basic design vs a Brown.

The 40 Brown in Mex. appears to have wing bunks like the 31 I had, except twins not singles. They extend under the cockpit seats. We called it sleeping in the coffins since you had to slide in feet first at an elevated position off the cabin sole. A bitch to get into worse to change bedding. Not something conducive to comfort especially someone of retirement age

Roy M · 27-05-2009, 08:20

My aft cabin berth on a Searunner 40 (54" X 80") is mostly on the underwing, full length exposed to the cabin, and not under the cockpit seat. The outboard half of the forward berth is full height throughout, one-quarter of the berth is "hip-high", as Jim Brown once quipped. I get the Captain's berth, guests get the Crew berth. With the outboard half full capacity, there hasn't seemed to be a problem with entertainment values. The early Browns had a "hip-high slot" that confined one's lower half to oblivion and limited ranges of amorous expression. A number of the Southern California builders in the 70's elected to try removing the obstacles to bedtime bliss. It had no effect on stiffness of the cabin, especially in the area of the chainplates. Made things nice for the occupants. One adopts to getting in and out of the forward berth. Stand up on the lower companionway step, sit on the bunk, scoot back, swing your legs up and under the cockpit seat, and settle down. Reverse for leaving the bunk. Even on the aft cabin bunk, I have to step up on the companionway step to get into bed. I don't find it an odious task, especially when considering how monohulls don't get to enjoy large berths at sea.

Cadence · 27-05-2009, 08:42

Roy,
You can probably answer a question for me. The pic of the Williams appears to have an off set dagger board in the on the hard?

Of all of those Bill had, she looked the most livable. As they say " every boat is a compremise."

Roy M · 28-05-2009, 09:21

Cadence, I'd have to see it to say it. Sorry. Yes, you are right about compromise. For me, I wanted performance, durability, and livability. I backed off on cargo capacity (still, 3500 # ain't bad), interior volume, and cost considerations (building it myself and making improvements over time helps). So far, I'm quite happy.

Cadence · 28-05-2009, 10:13

Grats on building it. I build the trawler, pics, from scratch. Not built Like a tri, more like an ice breaker. Never finished the interior, but building,turning and launching the hull from my back yard was worth showing up skeptics. Initial intent was shrimping but that industry went to asia. And other business interests were more important.

I fell in love with tris. with a 25 ft. Piver. I didn't have to touch the tiller, just trim the sails. A great single hander. She came to the US single handed from GB .She just was not big enough for creature comeforts.

I will have to give the 31 Brown one thing, she would run down wind under double reefed main in 10 to 12s and never take any green water. I just could not get her to go up wind well. I was not fond of the cutter rig.

Your Brown is probably totally different.

Roy M · 28-05-2009, 19:40

Cadence, sometimes bigger is better. I think you are referring to the stopping power of "square waves" on shorter, lighter craft. That is definitely a problem with any smaller vessel.

martinridge · 15-07-2009, 01:02

hey Bill....just joined this forum, ...I live on my trimaran....apparently a Nichols 37' Cavalier, but has been very modified, including a bridgdeck, and converted from ketch to sloop. and sails very well, thank you.Over 5 years....yes 5 years , of derotting and glassing the hulls and all structural components and now feel safe to venture forth, a twenty hp honda getting me out of way of the manic traffic here on the Gold Coast,and sleeps 6...if only I had that many friends..!! Anyway, a little dose of cancer may put paid to plans of doing the islands ( the boat in previous life lived in Thailand and Indo ) so may have to let her go soon. Could be worth a look at around 45 k... Good to see the interest in old , but still very capable trimarans is there

matt.lynne · 16-07-2009, 21:51

Roy M....
Whats so wrong with Horstman Tri's?(in your opinion)
It is not easy getting any feedback or info on them,(I am looking at a tristar45).

Matt

FuzzyFeat · 17-07-2009, 05:33

Matt - I'm not Roy, but here's my $.02 --
Horstman's tris are what is know as room-a-rans. Great living accommodations but are heavy and slow. I have no experience with their sea keeping qualities. The only ones I have seen and have been on have been tied up at 'end of the road marinas' or rotting apart on the hard in some backwater. In the twelve years I cruised the Caribbean I do not recall seeing one.

If living accommodations is what you want go for it. If you are looking for an ocean cruiser that will carry a load and still perform reasonably well look at the Jim Brown or Marlples Sea Runner or newer design Sea Clipper designs.

I am sure there are exceptions to my statements, I can only speak from my experience.

Roy M · 17-07-2009, 08:20

Fuzzy says it all, except, having sailed on several Horstmans, I can only add a question: Doesn't anyone else feel a bit uncomfortable standing on the downward sloping bow as it's hobby-horsing? Other than a pretty line on a design sheet, I can't understand the designer's original intended purpose. They do make spacious, though somewhat dark, condominiums for dockside use.

Cadence · 17-07-2009, 09:00

Probably a good point of view. It will probably be helpfull to two groups. Those that want a condo for an occassional day sail and those the want a blue water boat.

Nothing wrong with either wants.

BillAU · 19-07-2009, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinridge

hey Bill....just joined this forum, ...I live on my trimaran....apparently a Nichols 37' Cavalier, but has been very modified, including a bridgdeck, and converted from ketch to sloop. and sails very well, thank you.Over 5 years....yes 5 years , of derotting and glassing the hulls and all structural components and now feel safe to venture forth, a twenty hp honda getting me out of way of the manic traffic here on the Gold Coast,and sleeps 6...if only I had that many friends..!! Anyway, a little dose of cancer may put paid to plans of doing the islands ( the boat in previous life lived in Thailand and Indo ) so may have to let her go soon. Could be worth a look at around 45 k... Good to see the interest in old , but still very capable trimarans is there

G'day from Victoria martinridge

Thanks for the offer mate but at present I'm in no position to purchase any vessel, the wife is pretty crook and I look after her, then there's the two heart attacks I suffered, one in 07 and a second in 08, the Doc' still sees me every four weeks, his orders not mine

but I still plan on getting a Tri when things are sorted

Sorry about your bout with the big C, keep your chin up mate and don't give-up on your Island crusing dreams, my neighbour/friend had cancer, that was twelve years back but he's still going great guns!

The two Tri's I liked (in my price range) were both Nichols and both were based at Airlie Beach QLD but they have both sold. I have now found two great looking Jim Brown Tri's, one a 1990 40ft and a 1991 38ft, both are on offer for more than I can afford at present but...Who knows what the furture holds! Besides...as I have said...I'm not ready to do any buying just yet so, I'm using the time to do my research.

I wish you the best for the furture martin and like I have said...Don't give-up on your dreams mate, doctors can do great things with many illnesses these days

Best regards,

Bill AU

PS. How about posting a few more pics' of your Tri and our beautifull Queensland coast?

BillAU · 19-07-2009, 21:01

G'day mates,

During my research I found, what I consider to be, a beaut Cat.
I know...I've been on about Tri's but "everything", from the construction, to the rig, to the motors on this Cat appeals to me. It just seems (to me) to make so much sense.

Unfortunately the company building these Cats are closing down but...They still have one KISSCAT for sale, price, $110,000.00AU!
The Cat needs to be fitted-out below decks, so the idea is to buy the Cat as is, sail her back to Aus', then fit her out as you please in Australia. That way you save on tax and have the vessel in Aus' to work on as you please.

You can check-out the KissCat on this link, good pictures from the first delivery.
Kisscat - First Kiss Delivery Photos

Now! If only I can convince the wife that buying the last KISSCAT would be a great move but...I won't hold my breath while she thinks about it

Women! Can't live with em and can't live without em

Bill AU