Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-04-2021, 07:55   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Potomac/Chesapeake
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 443
Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

https://www.superyachttimes.com/yach...gen-catamarans

Fountaine Pajot has launched the first project of its strategic development plan, entitled Odyssea 2024, aimed at finding energy solutions for its sailing catamarans. They have chosen to incorporate EODev’s hydrogen generator, REXH2. It is their aim to combine the power supply of their 59-foot sailing catamaran,*Samana*59’, with the hydrogen power generator, which has been developed around Toyota’s Fuel Cell. This technology will be integrated in La Rochelle, ideally located near the Fountaine Pajot shipyard. The first hydrogen powered*Samana 59'*with fuel cell technology, will be launched at the beginning of 2022.
Rohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2021, 10:04   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 174
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Interessting idea, but I think I would go for methanol and not H2.
Having high-pressure tanks on a boat is not something I would like to have...
And there is the part with resupplying H2. It's likely not like the H2 Cat that is travelling the world atm producing it's own H2...
harlem24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2021, 10:32   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 60
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

FWIW, there is already a commercially available H2 fuel cell - BOC's Hymera with a design output of 175W (admittedly a bit meagre); its supply comes from Linde's new Genie cylinder which works with a higher fill pressure than conventional gas cylinders (300bar versus 200bar). One Genie cylinder is good for up to 7kW. Might be the beginning of onboard hydrogen based power generation for eco conscious boaters ...
Ifitsworthdoing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2021, 14:18   #4
Registered User
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,397
Images: 69
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Eco friendly? Kinda. Most hydrogen you can buy comes from fossil fuels. Some is also produced by electrolysis, often using electricity generated by burning fossil fuels. Compressing hydrogen to 2-300 bar is very energy intensive.

While burning hydrogen is "clean", producing water vapour exhaust, water vapour is actually the most effective greehouse gas of all....
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2021, 21:10   #5
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,695
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Hydrogen power you say. Excellent, cause at the weights they are they certainly ain't wind powered
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 16:22   #6
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 1,052
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

The most eco friendly boat is one that is already built.

The second most eco friendly boat is a new build that sails well and doesn't need the auxiliary except for some maneuvering.

This project seems eco friendly in name only but hey it's all about virtue signalling anyway right.
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2021, 16:11   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
bstreep's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Port Aransas, TX
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,595
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

There are 2 critical problems with hydrogen, and they both revolve around storage: You can't compress it to a liquid, making it hard to compress, and it leaks out of EVERYTHING. It's so small, it will leak out of a steel tank. And most "regular" hoses and fittings.
__________________
Bill Streep
San Antonio/Port Aransas, TX
bstreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2021, 18:06   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Boat: McCurdy & Rhodes Custom 46
Posts: 1,182
Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Eco friendly? Kinda. Most hydrogen you can buy comes from fossil fuels. Some is also produced by electrolysis, often using electricity generated by burning fossil fuels. Compressing hydrogen to 2-300 bar is very energy intensive.

While burning hydrogen is "clean", producing water vapour exhaust, water vapour is actually the most effective greehouse gas of all....


Water vapor in the atmosphere is a contributor to warming, but it is self limiting as it precipitates out at a certain concentration. We call this “rain.”

Yes the source of the hydrogen does matter.
If it is produced by electrolysis the core feed stock is called “water.”

The “rain” is a form of “water.”
dfelsent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2021, 18:42   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
bstreep's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Port Aransas, TX
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,595
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfelsent View Post
Water vapor in the atmosphere is a contributor to warming, but it is self limiting as it precipitates out at a certain concentration.

Not quite. That's a simplistic answer. Only locally is it self limiting. The "self limiting" part is based upon a whole lot of other factors. Including temperature.


You appeared to be a bit dismissive. This is why I try and stay out of these kind of conversations. They quickly become polarizing.
__________________
Bill Streep
San Antonio/Port Aransas, TX
bstreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2021, 21:15   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: La Honda, California
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 50
Posts: 311
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

My marina doesn't carry hydrogen. Any idea how to get some to the boat?
Pitchondesign is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2021, 04:25   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 174
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Not yet. If ever.
harlem24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2021, 05:43   #12
Registered User
 
danstanford's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Boat: J/88
Posts: 288
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

I have always thought hydrogen was the ultimate battery when combined with a fuel cell. It can store power from wind, solar, or being plugged in with water as a fuel stock and then use the fuel cell to recover the power when you need it.
Clearly I don't understand the other elements like high pressure storage to minimize the size of the storage medium and how that would be handled but conceptually it seems to check a lot of boxes to me. Certainly the concept of re-charging conventional batteries considering the environtmental implications of making and then recycling them has always seemed a bit backward. Having a windmill madly making power at times we don't need it and basically having no way to store that power is also a backwards idea in some respects.
__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be explained away by stupidity.
danstanford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2021, 06:45   #13
Registered User
 
Orin's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Anacortes, Washington
Boat: Ta Shing - Baba 35
Posts: 117
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifitsworthdoing View Post
FWIW, there is already a commercially available H2 fuel cell - BOC's Hymera with a design output of 175W (admittedly a bit meagre); its supply comes from Linde's new Genie cylinder which works with a higher fill pressure than conventional gas cylinders (300bar versus 200bar). One Genie cylinder is good for up to 7kW. Might be the beginning of onboard hydrogen based power generation for eco conscious boaters ...
7kw. It certainly is when you are talking about non-heating and non-propulsion loans. You could run your boats electrics all day even with an electric range. The problem is that’s still less than a gallon of diesel. People normally want enough to run their engine full bore two days straight on board.

How large are those bottles?
__________________
- Hoping for filled sails and an empty calendar.
Cheers to the day I see your sails on the horizon!
Orin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2021, 16:15   #14
Registered User
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,397
Images: 69
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

Quote:
Originally Posted by danstanford View Post
I have always thought hydrogen was the ultimate battery when combined with a fuel cell. It can store power from wind, solar, or being plugged in with water as a fuel stock and then use the fuel cell to recover the power when you need it.
Clearly I don't understand the other elements like high pressure storage to minimize the size of the storage medium and how that would be handled but conceptually it seems to check a lot of boxes to me. Certainly the concept of re-charging conventional batteries considering the environtmental implications of making and then recycling them has always seemed a bit backward. Having a windmill madly making power at times we don't need it and basically having no way to store that power is also a backwards idea in some respects.
Storing hydrogen is the problem. In practical terms it's not condensible (you need cryogenic temperatures as well as high pressure), so needs to be stored as high pressure gas.

Compressing it to those pressures uses a lot of energy.

Obviously the storage tanks need to be heavily constructed. Hydrogen tends to embrittle some metals too.

Hydrogen molecules are the smallest, so it's very difficult to prevent leaks 100%, especially when dealing with such high pressure.

Hydrogen is extremely flammable. It will burn in the widest range of concentrations of any substance. So any leaks could be catastrophic.

To be honest, using hydrogen or hybrid electric systems in boats to be "greener" is in my opinion virtue signalling.

Manufacturers, if they really wanted to be greener could look more closely at their manufacturing methods and materials. And they could look at building boats that can sail more efficiently and motor less.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2021, 18:33   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 499
Re: Fountaine Pajot to build hydrogen powered yachts

And another problem the folks promoting these pie in the sky projects ignore...

Burning Diesel generates 45.5 Mega Joules per kilogram. Diesel weighs 0.85 kg/litre. So the energy density is about 39 MJ/litre

Burning hydrogen generates about 130 Mega Joules per kilogram. Stored at 300 bar (4300 psi!) hydrogen has a density of just 0.02 kg/litre. So the energy density is 2.6 MJ/litre.

In other words, to store the same amount of energy onboard, you will need fuel tanks that are 15 times bigger than you would with diesel....

Think about that for a second.... picture your diesel fuel tank, now imagine 15 of those tanks. Where are you going to put them???? And it is far worse than that! Because of the enormously high pressures involved, the hydrogen tanks will take up far more room, and will be far more dangerous.

This is just plain stupid. But there are lots of stupid people out there who will be suckered along because it is "green" and they don't know how to evaluate the issues involved.
BillKny is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fountaine pajot, yacht

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General Info: Fountaine Pajot Catamarans Gisle Fountaine Pajot 187 10-03-2012 20:00
Fountaine Pajot - Performance Gisle Fountaine Pajot 2 09-01-2012 18:55
Powered USB Hub vs Powered USB Cables Bryan Kemler Monohull Sailboats 2 20-01-2010 16:24
General Info: How Strong Is a Fountaine Pajot, Really? Gisle Fountaine Pajot 2 29-04-2004 00:34
Fountaine Pajot - Link to Fountaine Pajot Gisle Fountaine Pajot 0 19-03-2003 10:49

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.