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Old 10-08-2017, 07:50   #16
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Re: Fly bridge or not

Yep.

I too would opt for a flybridge boat, if my plan were to extensively cruise lagoons and other mostly flat waters. One can see the world better, other boats better, coral patches better.

So we may see most charter fleets phasing out their older units in favour of the flyibridge newer ones.

When sailing in open rougher waters, I normally seek max protection from the elements, so I would chose something with twin wheels, one each side of the bridgedeck, just behind the cabin house.

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Old 10-08-2017, 09:03   #17
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Re: Fly bridge or not

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
I've never heard a cat owner complain about their helm position, no matter where it is. To me this goes to show that, not only do we tend to like what we have, but that all helm positions work.

If you can't get a ride on a flybridge cat to see for yourself, the next best (or even better) thing would be to talk to a delivery skipper and see what they think of different helm positions.
I'm a cat owner and the helm position sucks...well you can imagine the rest.

There is nowhere in the cockpit you sit down and still see the front of the boat, or in fact where you are going. Standing or using the helmsman's chair which is too low anyway is tedious. The chair can't raised further as the wheel is already too low, and the chair is on blocks as it is, and requires a footstool or rest.

I'm 5'10" and even standing, I can't see the bows. It's a very poor setup.

My plan to fix it, is to just add a camera looking forward and hook that up to a screen, or even to the chartploter. Hence my post earlier in the thread about the guy who who his gopro stuck up the mast.

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Old 10-08-2017, 11:18   #18
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Re: Fly bridge or not

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The downside of the flybridge is, in rough seas the pitching and rolling is amplified so that's another time we will go below.
We too have a trawler that we live on when we are back in the States doing a work stint. No flybridge, but the wheel house is raised about 3-4 feet above the cabin level. The difference in motion is amazing, even with that little difference in altitude. A cat is much different as it does not roll but, even so, the motion is bound to be greater on a flybridge than at deck level. On our cat the difference between standing in the cockpit and on the coachroof is very noticeable in a beam sea, although, most of the time the motion is fairly sedate on either level. In fact, when the weather is good and the spinnaker is up we love to bring the beanbags up to the coachroof and sail from up there. At times like that I can understand the appeal of a flybridge.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:38   #19
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Re: Fly bridge or not

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Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
I'm a cat owner and the helm position sucks...well you can imagine the rest.



There is nowhere in the cockpit you sit down and still see the front of the boat, or in fact where you are going. Standing or using the helmsman's chair which is too low anyway is tedious. The chair can't raised further as the wheel is already too low, and the chair is on blocks as it is, and requires a footstool or rest.



I'm 5'10" and even standing, I can't see the bows. It's a very poor setup.



My plan to fix it, is to just add a camera looking forward and hook that up to a screen, or even to the chartploter. Hence my post earlier in the thread about the guy who who his gopro stuck up the mast.





Not trying to be mean spirited, but if the only way I could see forward on my cat was by installing a camera and screen, I would be shopping for another boat. I always thought the visibility from Prouts was pretty good, which judging from the picture it is?
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Old 10-08-2017, 13:32   #20
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Re: Fly bridge or not

Snowgoose 35. Nah the visibility is poor.

Ignoring the sprayhood, I can see bow in the centre just about, but can only see the life-lines/guard rails port and starboard. It doesn't effect my handling of the boat at all really. I only posted as someone said he's never heard of a cat owner complaining. He obviously didn't take into account a 1977 British build special.

But, no, my biggest gripe is not being able to see where I'm going when sitting down/chilling out.

Anyway, it's not that relevant to the thread since this is mostly about Lagoons and the like.
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Old 10-08-2017, 13:42   #21
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Re: Fly bridge or not

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Snowgoose 35. Nah the visibility is poor.



Ignoring the sprayhood, I can see bow in the centre just about, but can only see the life-lines/guard rails port and starboard. It doesn't effect my handling of the boat at all really. I only posted as someone said he's never heard of a cat owner complaining. He obviously didn't take into account a 1977 British build special.



But, no, my biggest gripe is not being able to see where I'm going when sitting down/chilling out.



Anyway, it's not that relevant to the thread since this is mostly about Lagoons and the like.


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Old 10-08-2017, 13:47   #22
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Re: Fly bridge or not

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All the experience sailors. Why choose catamaran with a Fly bridge? Why not a Fly bridge. Pro and Con
I will try to simplify the things for you. If you answer 4 "YES" to following questions, you should go for a flybridge. İf there is only one "YES" then buy a cat w/out fly bridge. For any other results yr wife will go for flybridge anyway..

1-I don't plan to make long passages and offshore sailing in the foreseable future.
2-I don't leave the port if the expected wind is above 20 kts.
3-Being able to see all 4 corners of the boat is a must for me
4-I spend most of time in anchor..
5-Mainsail is not my area of interest, I just unfurl the genoa with following winds otherwise I simply motor.



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Old 10-08-2017, 19:49   #23
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Re: Fly bridge or not

+1, Yeloya, excellent points, reflect my experience exactly, with some additional issues on some particular designs.
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Old 10-08-2017, 21:44   #24
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Re: Fly bridge or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
I will try to simplify the things for you. If you answer 4 "YES" to following questions, you should go for a flybridge. İf there is only one "YES" then buy a cat w/out fly bridge. For any other results yr wife will go for flybridge anyway..

1-I don't plan to make long passages and offshore sailing in the foreseable future.
2-I don't leave the port if the expected wind is above 20 kts.
3-Being able to see all 4 corners of the boat is a must for me
4-I spend most of time in anchor..
5-Mainsail is not my area of interest, I just unfurl the genoa with following winds otherwise I simply motor.



Cheers

Yeloya

Cat Impi will say that your points 1 and 2 are nonsense, 3 is right on with the addition of seeing everything around you as well, and 4 and 5 are also nonsense. He seems to love his flybridge Lagoon and posts lots of videos of it sailing well and in stronger wind conditions (though I'm not sure I've ever seen his boat go to windward - smart passage planning I guess).

Personally I don't like the vertical height and high booms of most modern flybridge and even sport top boats, but then I've got and purposely selected an older boat with helm on the rear bulkhead. I can see the bows from the helm when standing, but I can't see the far side because of the cabin, so need someone standing there when going someplace narrow.

Flybridge models have a major drawback in that they remove the helms person/watch keeper from the cockpit and interior of the boat. On the other hand, if they have room for others on the flybridge or bimini/cabin top then they solve two common problems with almost all catamarans - can't see where you're going when sitting around the cockpit, and you can't really keep the helms person company in their skinny helm stations.

Totally personal preference.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:05   #25
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Re: Fly bridge or not

My personal preference is to have a half bridge like the Lagoon 400 / Fountaine Pajot Helia. This seems to be the best compromise between shelter from the elements, visibility and safety (low boom with easy access)

You are sheltered behind the cockpit, have decent visibility up front, the boom is as low as possible and easy accessible, the point of attack for the wind at the main sail is low, so a shorter lever & less pitching of the boat, more efficient and comfy sailing.

I do not like ether the setup of two wheels at the deck like outremar or nautitech, you are totally exposed to the elements and have almost no visibility up front. This is even worse than a flybridge in my opinion, performance wise it is a setup for higher speed, because of a lower profile of the deck with less air resistance.

But there are sailors out there, who love their bridges, decks and steering sticks.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:47   #26
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Re: Fly bridge or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
My personal preference is to have a half bridge like the Lagoon 400 / Fountaine Pajot Helia. This seems to be the best compromise between shelter from the elements, visibility and safety (low boom with easy access)

You are sheltered behind the cockpit, have decent visibility up front, the boom is as low as possible and easy accessible, the point of attack for the wind at the main sail is low, so a shorter lever & less pitching of the boat, more efficient and comfy sailing.

I do not like ether the setup of two wheels at the deck like outremar or nautitech, you are totally exposed to the elements and have almost no visibility up front. This is even worse than a flybridge in my opinion, performance wise it is a setup for higher speed, because of a lower profile of the deck with less air resistance.

But there are sailors out there, who love their bridges, decks and steering sticks.
I agree with Helia style from a comfort point of view, but if you have the chance to sail a Catana (choice of tiller/wheel), Outremer (same) or even a Nautitech with direct connection wheels you'll know what you've been missing. It's always fun to have somebody on our boat and hand them the tiller at speed; the direct feeling is so apparently missing on a cat with other than a tiller or direct wheel.

That said, if you've spent your life sailing with a "stick on steroids" and retirement beckons with a calmer, slower pace, then it doesn't matter, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!

Like the man said, "peace!"
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Old 12-08-2017, 16:20   #27
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Re: Fly bridge or not

I like the open bridge deck layout like the Maine Cat 30 and 41. Helm central with 360 visibility and protection. No high boom or exposure to wind and wave and all the guests are part of the action with all lines worked from the open bridge deck. We have sailed ours through some pretty good off shore seas with no problems.
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Old 12-08-2017, 23:48   #28
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Re: Fly bridge or not

One of the biggest problems with a Fly Bridge cat is not that the watch keeper is disconnected and remote from the rest of the crew. It's the rest of the crew want to be up on the fly bridge most of the time with the watch keeper.
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Old 13-08-2017, 12:01   #29
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Re: Fly bridge or not

For large passenger count, and low sailing hours (typical charter situation), the fly bridge probably works well -- hence its popularity. But for real sailing with a couple, I have three concerns.
- Disconnect from the main boat. If it's just me and the admiral, one would be up top and one would be puttering in the cabin.
- Visibility. Everyone talks about seeing all four corners. I worry about seeing 2 miles ahead 20 degrees off the leeward bow. It seems to me that would be a serious blind spot under sail. Or can you easily see around the jib?
- Windage might be a concern, both sailing upwind and making a landing. Seems it exacerbates one of a cat's biggest character flaw. In charter trade, no one sails upwind (I only see them motoring upwind) and rarely tie to a pier. But in private sailing, both occur more often.

I don't own a cat (yet) and my only sail on a cat was a 1000 mile mostly downwind delivery on a Catana -- about as far from a sailing condo as you can get and still be called a "cruising cat.". It unfortunately set our goal to about double our budget....
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Old 13-08-2017, 14:37   #30
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Re: Fly bridge or not

I think the half n half is the best option. Some, like the Antares have made sure the helm is protected from the elements. I think Ted (the designer) is dead right in his opinion of helmsmen being exposed to the weather.. not only poor weather but sun burn as well. I get it that some like the "feel" of the rudder but it's (imo) too high a price to pay. Helms at the foot at the mast would be great but they seem to be really intrusive to what are normally living/social areas.
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