First Cat for Family New to Cruising

[oubeta]

People told me the same thing about living off-grid in Alaska with my family.
I flew in a chainsaw mill and we made it happen. People on here crying about no where to stop for food on a long passage, and their kiddos having no internet. Kills me
Try a winter in remote AK with no electricity, (except running the jenny on $16 diesel a few hrs a week) and a wood stove for heat. Trading hand split wood with the eskimo village 100mi away. Alaska was tough but Siberia was also tough with the language barrier and all. Living on a boat seems like a dream. We have been through a lot as a family, but I didn't think I needed to share to get advice on what boats to consider. We have also been planning this for 5+ years. I even bought a blown Northern Lights Gen to rebuild in my shop to brush up on my engine skills since it's been 10yrs or so since I've rebuilt one.
We have the kids school already figured out and they started last year. My family doesn't get sea sick, but I appreciate the concern. I wouldn't be looking to cruise on a boat if they got sea sick. Also these bigger cats have a huge range (1000nm+) motoring. A lot of people rent from the Moorings and never lift a sail. Not saying that's what we would do, but it's nice to have options.


I'm looking for some real advice from actual owners of the catamarans we are considering buying and how they preform and the pro's and cons of each. Is there a boat missing from our list that we should be looking at around the 60' range?
Is anyone currently cruising in any of the 57'+ Fountaine's?



I appreciate everyone's advice, and I'd probably give some of the same advice to people who tell me they want to live off-grid in a remote part of AK, lol. Trust me, I have no vision of trouble free relaxation.

I appreciate all the encouragement and advice.

[Captaindball]

There’s a lagoon 620 here in Marina Del Rey, CA. It’s huge in person. It’s like $1.7M used. The current owner does her peloton rides on the hardtop roof. It’s kinda funny, I haven’t actually met anyone in the market for such a large cat. But I suppose it’s cheaper than buying a house in some parts of Los Angeles, and probably provides more privacy. You know, the worst case scenario for inexperienced sailors is pretty bad. But if you’re a pilot, you take risks very seriously. You didn’t just start flying your family around on day 1. I’m sure you’ll apply the same care to your adventures and won’t take this experience or your family’s safety lightly. Best of luck, I hope to hear more about your process.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by dougweibel

I will answer your question without adding to it, though that doesn't mean I disagree with what anyone has posted.

If you would be comfortable and competent to buy a power cat of similar size then you should be able to buy a sailing cat and adapt with some training. Certainly sailing a large cat will be quite different than a small monohull and I would strongly discourage you from buying a large performance catamaran right out of the gate. While not familiar with boats you mention they look more like cruising cats than performance cats, so OK there.

Your plan of hiring a captain for 2-3 months sounds a bit excessive if the answer to the first sentence in the preceding paragraph is really a yes. I would shop around for an INSTRUCTOR (who is also a USCG captain), as you will need someone to teach, not someone to do. If you plan your itinerary well so that you are in a cruising area conducive to the training you need then a good instructor should be able to teach you sound the fundamentals of sailing and handling a large cat in 2-4 weeks.

Last thought - a 55' cat will have space like a 75' monohull. Maybe you should be looking 5 to 10' shorter. Easier to handle, easier to maintain, and easier to resell.

Nailed it !! Most certainly agree 5 to 10 foot shorter will most likely more than fit your needs. Sounds like a wonderful plan !

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by oubeta

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We don't want to have to hire a captain or crew, but we are thinking it might be good to hire an experienced captain for the first 2-3 months or so until we get the hang of it........................
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Would we need to hire a captain for a few months?......................
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I would love any input or suggestions you guys have. We just sold our airplane, and are looking to buy a boat ASAP, but don't want to rush into it and buy the wrong one.

Ann's points are the ones to carefully consider.


In posts like yours, the reality is that the replies on them go from "Go for it!" to "You're nuts!" True here, too. Much of the answer to that depends on who you are and how you deal with "stuff." You've commented on that, but recognize that not all of your skills are transferable.


The one thing that has kept "nagging at me" since starting to read your thread are the multiple mentions in your very first post about how long you think assistance would be required, needed or expected.


Two to three months is a LOT of time to have a stranger (however well qualified, and perhaps necessary) living "in your house." Please, think about it for a minute. Or lots more.


Most of us agree (having been a participant in this and other boating forums for decades) that learning sailing is a lifelong pursuit. OK, OK, yes, folks can learn the "basics" and the science and technology behind the concepts, but is truly is different than the skill-set required for flying. This has been discussed here many times.


If you're prepared to be an electrician, mechanic, plumber and detective, as you seem to be, that's a good start.


Finally, have you checked that everyone is "on board" with this plan and that seasickness isn't a serious issue for any of you? (Just something I didn't read in this thread, trying to cover all the obvious bases.)



I just think there is a glaring inconsistency between your stated experience and abilities, and your thought of needing professional assistance for that long.


Whatever you attempt to do, all the best to you and your family.

[Skipper Lee]

I will answer your question like this.
Any 40-100 foot sailing cat (modern)would be capable of motoring anywhere a 40-100 foot power cat can!
Thus: Get the sailboat and motor around. As you indicate, you have accumulated sea time and you likely wont get to lost with your aviation background. Then on nice days and for short periods you could sail when the sailing is good or in your favor. Just sail downwind then motor, or use the motor if you blow the tack.
Read: use both till you only need one mode of propulsion. Don't ever push it when your not comfortable.
Please leave it at anchor or at the dock till you learn to move a 60 foot sailboat in close quarters with all the other 1.5 mil boats in the rich part of the marina. LOL. Get one that sails, it'll be fun.

Best regards,

[JPA Cate]

oubeta:

I think you guys can do this, and have a good time. There is still the question of your wife's interests and competences relative to sailing. Imo, she needs to learn about navigation, piloting, as well as sailing the boat. It is a very large size vessel you're contemplating, and you will find limited berthing space for it. Had an acquaintance with a 55' cat: berthing in Sydney was 1500/wk. AUD 10 years ago. Your experience does not sound as if your wife shared your motor vessel experiences: at present, she lacks ocean experience, and while learning to sail in itself isn't difficult, learning to sail well is more complicated (there are whole books about sail trim and rig tuning), and developing a sense of seamanship takes time, as well as sea miles.

On the subject of sail training for women, it is usually best for husband and wife to take separate courses. This removes the potential problem of her deferring to him rather than learning on her own, but it also confers the benefits that come from having different teahers' points of views, so that she may bring some different skills to the partnership. [A Google Custom Search here should find you some discussions of this issue.]

There was a pilot who had a Leopard 46, who sailed it onto the fringing reef at Huahine, I think it was. He was unaware of the onshore set, he had not plotted his course far enough off the island. Air navigation and water navigation both require a lot of attention. It is experience on the water that teaches you to leave much wider berths to the hard bits. You can read about it here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-188429.html

Good luck with it.

Ann

On edit: " Also don't worry about all of these countries being locked down because of a pandemic either, I'm sure they'll be happy to let you in once you arrive." This was posted at the bottom of p. 1. I believe the poster is not correct here in this estimation. The small South Pacific nations do not have first world resources, do not have vaccine for their populace, and their only protection against the covid 19 epidemic/pandemic is isolation and quarantine. Eventually, vaccine will become available for them, but as of now, their populations do not have any. Until they can keep themselves safe, I do not think they will be "happy to let you in" at all. One small evidence of this is that a couple of weeks ago, a US vessel left Tasmania where we are, on a direct, non-stop trip back to the US, headed south of Stewart Is., then on up across the Pacific. Generally people head west from Oz. Going back was because of all the quarantines. Not much point in going if you have to stay on the boat, especially if part of your motivation is for the broadening that travel brings, for yourselves and the kids.

Ann

[mark_morwood]

A couple of suggestions/comments:

#1 what Ann has said above - make sure your whole family is onboard and understands. If your goal is a positive experience for your whole family, this should be your first priority. As long as you are sensible and practical, prepared to listen to others, and adjust, then you can build the sailing experience you need to be safe as you go.

#2 - get some more professional help. I know a couple of families who've worked with a formal cruising coach, and have found it incredibly valuable through the whole journey from planning to boat purchase to heading out. The one I know of is https://www.sailingtotem.com/ask-the-cruiser but I'm sure there are others out there too.

#3 - Done well (being flexible to everyone's needs) its hard for me to imagine a better experience for a family. We spent 4 years cruising with our kids during their middle school years, it was a fantastic time for us. We got to spend large amounts of quality time together in a way that was so difficult to manage in "normal" life.

#4 - The first thing you'll learn as a cruiser is the need to be flexible about plans. I suspect next year through the S Pacific will be very difficult so having a backup plan in the Bahamas, US East Coast or Caribbean would be sensible.

#5 - It's really important that everyone feels confident on the boat. In our case this was about knowing there was a plan for things that might go wrong. It doesn't mean that both you and your partner have to be able to comfortably manoeuvre the boat in a tight marina, but you do probably want both of you comfortable to get the boat from anywhere you are to somewhere with help if something serious happens to either of you - even if that is to motor or just use the jib or whichever sails are most comfortably managed. Doesn't mean you shouldn't both aim to be the best sailors you can, but do set reasonable goals for what you need before you first head off.

Bottom line, go for it.

Mark.

[Fore and Aft]

I am not sure if it is just me but the more cats I survey the more I realise that I really like monohulls.
Oubeta have you looked at something like this Cheoy Lee below, she is a real little ship and would be way easier to handle and maintain than an equivalent length cat.
I just googled those big cats and what's the point of having a cat if she draws 1.83 meters for the Leopard or 1.55 for the Fountaine? I thought the benefit of a cat was being able to get into shallow waters?
Cheers

https://dicksimonyachts.com/brochure...ff-market.html

[SteveSadler]

You don't need to spend it all on such a big cat. A 50' cat has more than enough room for everyone. But you will be much happier and less stressed if you hire a skipper to see you thru the growing pains. You'll have a new boat you know nothing about. With a sailing rig you know nothing about. No qualifications to get you insurance. It's a recipe for divorce and disaster. Hire a skipper and learn the ropes stress free.

[marcok]

Hi Oubeta,
I think @Skipper Lee is 100% right (I know, tricky claim) in his comment. With your background in off-grid living and aviation you'll learn things pretty quickly. I come from a sailing/racing family and have grown up on boats. However with proper training you will will be able to sail a boat safely within 2 months as long as the teaching is done in a structured manner.

Also keep in mind that there's a lot of opinions out there but keep in mind that in 20 years you will regret things you didn't do not so much the things you did...

Last comment: do make sure the whole family is 'onboard' with the plans

Enjoy the entire experience!

[Hodgdon87]

Honestly, these types of questions should be easily answered by your broker. If he or she doesn't have the cruising experience to knowledgeably advise you on these topics, then you chose the wrong broker. Feel free to reach out to me if you want real advice on purchasing a catamaran of this size and world voyaging on it with a family. I did it professionally for many years.

[GoinSumWare]

This jumped out at me, especially since you don,t have much sailing experience:

"...we were in the process of buying a 65' custom trawler, but the more cruisers we talked to, everyone said go with a catamaran."

Who is "everyone"? All sailors with catamarans? WHY did they make that recommendation? Did they give you any negative info on cats, such as the problems which come with a lot of beam, or was it all hearts and flowers.

As others have said, the LAST person you want to take advice from is a broker, especially one who "talks you into" changing course.

[capnkev]

Those boats you’re looking at are just shy of mega yacht. The carrying costs are very high and only a few places can haul them. Everything you do will be slightly more difficult and waaaay more expensive. It’s too much boat IMO.
Look at a Lagoon 450 or 52. They have a ton of space and will be much easier to pilot and maintain.

[Perfect Ride]

Hi oubeta,
I can send you a process I have used for selecting a cat. Actually a writup I did on the process with some spreadsheet ideas. If you PM me your email I will forward it to you.

One comment: go with the smallest boat you feel can be comfortable. Boats are a lot of work, and without crew, that means you and your family are doing all the maintenance and cleaning, smaller size means more time for the other joys of being on the water.

Cheers, Rand

[Sea Wolf]

It’s not possible to give you much viable information on the forum. In addition to your experience and abilities, much depends on the lifestyle you wish to live. My husband and I have spent 35+ years cruising on catamarans (32’ Gemini and 50’ Prout Quasar). We raised and schooled our daughter aboard. We’d be happy to meet with or correspond with you so feel free to contact us privately.